PM Reinforcements (Full Version)

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JustJoe -> PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 2:41:28 AM)

Am playing the Allies against the AI. It's late January of 42 and the Japs have landed a Division at PM. I chased away all his ships and am bringing in some reinforcements. If I bring in a Transport TF I know they go to port and offload. What happens if I bring in an Amphip TF? Will there be combat as if they are attacking the hex or will they just unload and join the Allied forces already there?



bradfordkay -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 3:18:06 AM)

I am sure that somebody will correct me if the following information is incorrect. Be nice, as I am pretty sure that it is true.

If you own the base the amphibious TF will just unload the troops over the beach. This can be a faster way to get the troops ashore if the TF is made up of the correct types of ships. If he captures the base while your TF is en route, then a regular transport TF will not be able to unload, but the amphibious one will unload and attack.



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 3:29:52 AM)

Always load TFs bringing troops or supplies to the front line in amphibious mode. Docking your TF to unload begs the enemy to bomb the port. Bombing squadrons who are trained to attack ground targets will sink docked ships whereas these same squadrons would be completely unable to sink a ship, except by accident, that was unloading amphibiously. Make a habit of loading amphibiously. You can still dock and unload that way if the circumstances allow, you sacrifice a little room on the ships but so what?



jdsrae -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 3:42:05 AM)

If you still own the hex they’ll just onload and be ready to fight next day if you want them to.
I only use strat move transport ships between rear areas like west coast to pearl harbour.
Once in theatre I always use amphib move to forward areas so they don’t have the 1-3 day delay before they can fight



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 3:47:03 AM)

Furthermore, no one ever owns a sea hexside. If you enter a hex you own the hexside you entered through in each and every case except by sea. Thus, if you own the hex, but not necessarily all the hexsides, you can land troops there without combat. The sea always owns that hexside.



jdsrae -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 3:54:20 AM)

Neptune owns those hexsides



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 4:05:55 AM)

If you cross a hexside owned by the enemy that is a river hexside, you will do so by shock attack whether you wish to or not. You can cross any other hexside even if owned by the enemy without that happening. If it is a sea hexside it may involve a shock attack if and only if the enemy possesses the hex. Hex possession is only an issue in base hexes. If you own the base, you can land amphibiously or dock and unload if the port is big enough, just keep in mind that the ships will be easier to sink with your troops still aboard if you dock. This can also be an important consideration if the hex is attacked by a surface TF. If your unloading TF is docked they cannot attempt to evade contact with a surface force. Without thinking about it too carefully as that might make my brain hurt, disbanded ships are in pretty much the same fix as docked ships in a TF. You can't disband ships with troops on them, but the same attacks by air or sea that may sink docked ships may sink disbanded ships.



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 4:12:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Neptune owns those hexsides


Poseidon, not that Roman copycat.



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 4:15:10 AM)

Neptune, to this day, has never produced a valid birth certificate.



JustJoe -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 4:27:06 AM)

Thank you all very much for the great information.



bradfordkay -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 5:11:01 AM)

I did not know that the Gorns worshiped the Greek gods. Learn something new every day...



rockmedic109 -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 7:32:57 AM)

I did not know that Neptune does not have a Birth Certificate......



BBfanboy -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 2:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

If you cross a hexside owned by the enemy that is a river hexside, you will do so by shock attack whether you wish to or not. You can cross any other hexside even if owned by the enemy without that happening. If it is a sea hexside it may involve a shock attack if and only if the enemy possesses the hex. Hex possession is only an issue in base hexes. If you own the base, you can land amphibiously or dock and unload if the port is big enough, just keep in mind that the ships will be easier to sink with your troops still aboard if you dock. This can also be an important consideration if the hex is attacked by a surface TF. If your unloading TF is docked they cannot attempt to evade contact with a surface force. Without thinking about it too carefully as that might make my brain hurt, disbanded ships are in pretty much the same fix as docked ships in a TF. You can't disband ships with troops on them, but the same attacks by air or sea that may sink docked ships may sink disbanded ships.


And on the bolded statement, there is always a shock attack when you land troops on an enemy-controlled atoll, initial and subsequent troop landings but not supply only landings.



rustysi -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 5:36:54 PM)

quote:

Bombing squadrons who are trained to attack ground targets will sink docked ships whereas these same squadrons would be completely unable to sink a ship, except by accident, that was unloading amphibiously.


In a game against the AI, you may do as you please, its not very good. Try this against a PBEM opponent and you could have trouble just as well. I for one train my LBA in lowN tactics just for such an event. Its been devastating on both sides when I've used it, but to me its better to lose some bombers than to have a null event against troops landing at my base.



rustysi -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 5:39:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

If you still own the hex they’ll just onload and be ready to fight next day if you want them to.
I only use strat move transport ships between rear areas like west coast to pearl harbour.
Once in theatre I always use amphib move to forward areas so they don’t have the 1-3 day delay before they can fight


Sound advice.

Just something else I'd like to add. In amphibious mode you'll be able to land devices that will otherwise be stranded on board if the receiving port is too small.



geofflambert -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/13/2019 9:37:39 PM)

Some devices. Some devices cannot be unloaded except at a dock. The ones that can unload amphibiously may in some cases take a number of days to unload.



AW1Steve -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/14/2019 2:56:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Neptune owns those hexsides


Poseidon, not that Roman copycat.

Neptune usurped Poseidon when Rome conquered Greece. So it's a right of conquest. [:D]



AW1Steve -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/14/2019 2:57:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Neptune, to this day, has never produced a valid birth certificate.

The EU says he doesn't need to. [:D]



HansBolter -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/14/2019 10:15:02 AM)

Be aware that some of those large devices like radars and motorized support that will not unload (radar) or unload interminably slowly (motorized support) over dock at a level one port from a Transport TF will sometimes be left behind as a fragment by an Amphibious TF. Using Amphibious TFs for front line deliveries, while always recommended, is not without its imperfections and attendant hardships.


Radars can be tricky buggers. Early war my rule of thumb was always a minimum level 3 port to unload them from a Transport TF, but in '45 I'm finding ones that refuse to unload at a level 3. They must be getting bigger as the war progresses.



BBfanboy -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/14/2019 6:03:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Be aware that some of those large devices like radars and motorized support that will not unload (radar) or unload interminably slowly (motorized support) over dock at a level one port from a Transport TF will sometimes be left behind as a fragment by an Amphibious TF. Using Amphibious TFs for front line deliveries, while always recommended, is not without its imperfections and attendant hardships.


Radars can be tricky buggers. Early war my rule of thumb was always a minimum level 3 port to unload them from a Transport TF, but in '45 I'm finding ones that refuse to unload at a level 3. They must be getting bigger as the war progresses.

Attendant with trying to unload them on rickety docks of a small port is that sometimes they get dropped in the water - even moreso if they are being unloaded onto lighters from an undocked TF!



rockmedic109 -> RE: PM Reinforcements (4/14/2019 8:13:26 PM)

Memories of watching three guys loading a refrigerator onto a Water-Taxi on the beach in Puerto Vallarta dance through my mind.

How much damage did salt spray do to the delicate electronics of the time? How did the Navy pack the radars in a time before plastic?



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