Pilot Training Queston

Pilot Training Queston (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition

Message

JustJoe -> Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 3:53:18 AM)
In CONUS I have some fighter training squadrons set up. I filled them up with newbie pilots at the start of the war. I have them doing Sweeps. It is the middle of Feb 1942. My pilots have Air of 70, DEFn of 55 but only EXP of 40. Is that normal game mechanics? And just out of curiosity, would they be viable fighter pilots with those levels?

AW1Steve -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 4:19:18 AM)
Normally I set the training to general , till they reach 50. Then I do escort , then sweeps, till they get the levels I want. Experience is best gained by doing actual CAP , or of course in combat. I generally send new pilots (after they reach the levels I want) to somewhere they can bomb and CAP some relatively helpless enemy base that they can use as a "live fire range". For that reason I will usually leave one enemy base (close by) completely shattered , but untaken. (Islands work best). Along with being a "self-guarding POW camp" , it's the perfect place to "blood" green pilots,

BBfanboy -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 5:02:52 AM)
That distribution of points is not unusual. You need to do some alternate skill training to get the EXP factor to change faster. As AW1Steve said, using "General" training is the fastest way to gain EXP through training. Personally, I don't want my fighter pilots training in transport or naval search or ASW, so I set them to train on LOWG or LOWN to get those useful skills. Training at 1000 feet is also the fastest way to gain Defensive skill when not training Strafe skill. If you set any training at 100' all you get is Strafe skill and Defensive skill. I find Strafe skill is usually fairly well advanced when the pilots come out of basic training. Incidentally, I train Sweep and Escort at 1000' as well to get the Defensive skill up. I have no issues with fatigue or low gain of Air skill because of that altitude. And as AW1Steve suggests, doing operations will advance EXP fastest of all. I wait until my units are around 50 EXP before sending them forward, mostly because my training bases have lots of overland supply while forward bases need to have it brought in. There is some opportunity to do raids from India into Burma or China and then pull back to India to give newbies some experience. There are often major gaps in enemy CAP in those areas.

HansBolter -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 11:41:19 AM)
If you adjust training as outlined by the two veterans above, monitoring it every couple of months at a minimum, you can have pilots with 55-60 experience and 70+ skills ready for transfer to reserve every six months. And, yes I meant 70+. The stated limit of 70 skill level for training is not a hard limit. I have routinely found pilots gaining over 70 in a given skill when I forget to monitor and adjust to training a new skill. Left to train one skill ad-infinitum it WILL increase skills above 70, but its better to switch training at 70 to get increases in Experience. Oh, and unlike BBFanboy, I train my sweeps at 100 feet to gain defensive skill. Either 100 or 1,000 works, it's just a personal preference.

geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 3:28:36 PM)
As Japanese I use surplus transport capacity to train IJA fighter pilots using general skills training. I graduate them to a training fighter squadron once their Defn reaches 50. Don't have any extra transport squadrons in the IJN. I don't like training them to strafe as I never order that, too much attrition. I do train some for naval attack, for those fighter types that have a good bomb load.

BBfanboy -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 3:30:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter If you adjust training as outlined by the two veterans above, monitoring it every couple of months at a minimum, you can have pilots with 55-60 experience and 70+ skills ready for transfer to reserve every six months. And, yes I meant 70+. The stated limit of 70 skill level for training is not a hard limit. I have routinely found pilots gaining over 70 in a given skill when I forget to monitor and adjust to training a new skill. Left to train one skill ad-infinitum it WILL increase skills above 70, but its better to switch training at 70 to get increases in Experience. Oh, and unlike BBFanboy, I train my sweeps at 100 feet to gain defensive skill. Either 100 or 1,000 works, it's just a personal preference. Question, Hans: I have always heard that at 100 feet the Air skill does not get trained even if the training mission is set for Sweep or Escort. Only Strafe skill trains at 100 feet. If you can say for sure the Air skill continues to increase at that altitude, I need to adjust my advice on the point!

geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 3:31:25 PM)
Attacking LCUs with fighters is to me just nuts. Airfields maybe, but they usually have a good deal of flak. If your pilot you put so much effort into training has to bail over an enemy base you're not likely to get him back. Both the Americans and the Japanese can easily replace planes destroyed on airfields. Replacing pilots is hard.

BBfanboy -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 3:44:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Attacking LCUs with fighters is to me just nuts. Airfields maybe, but they usually have a good deal of flak. If your pilot you put so much effort into training has to bail over an enemy base you're not likely to get him back. Both the Americans and the Japanese can easily replace planes destroyed on airfields. Replacing pilots is hard. You have to know your target. I am using Chinese fighters to attack a lone tank unit in open terrain and getting tank disablements and the odd one destroyed. The tank unit has 0 AAA. HQs and all-engineer units are also vulnerable. I have had ops losses but those are possible in any use of the fighters. I do not put the Chinese fighters up against Japanese fighters ... yet. Maybe once I get some pilots with good experience and defensive skills and a decent commander (does such a thing exist for Chinese AF units?)...

awaw -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 8:41:39 PM)
Quick poll with the JFBs. IJA starts with a bunch of “almost ready” Pilots in high 50 xp, 60ish air/def. Do u bother to continue to train them? Their high xp-to-air/def ratio suggest it may be better to just start off with a fresh batch of trainees.

jdsrae -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 9:33:48 PM)
I’ve just gone through a new turn 1 as Japan and I chose to move all pilots >50 experience into front line units and refill my rear are training groups with rookies. I figure that with the high pace of ops in the first few months the 50%ers will either learn fast or die trying. Against what will hopefully be weakening allied fighters over Malaya and Philippines I’m gambling on it being the former. I’ll try to put this first batch of rookies through the full 50/70 curriculum

Sardaukar -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 10:00:13 PM)
Usually I train my fighter pilots to exp 50, air 70, def 70.

mind_messing -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 10:03:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jdsrae I’ve just gone through a new turn 1 as Japan and I chose to move all pilots >50 experience into front line units and refill my rear are training groups with rookies. I figure that with the high pace of ops in the first few months the 50%ers will either learn fast or die trying. Against what will hopefully be weakening allied fighters over Malaya and Philippines I’m gambling on it being the former. I’ll try to put this first batch of rookies through the full 50/70 curriculum As Japan, I'm fond of pulling all the pilots from the trash fighter planes (Nates, Claudes) and the pilots from bombers in China and replacing them with rookies. The trash fighters do training for a couple months until you get the Oscar/Zero airframes to upgrade. The bombers learn on the job as bombing Chinese troops doesn't require much in the way of ability. This gives you a pool of good pilots for the frontline squadrons while giving the early war training regime a little head start. On top it prevents losing good pilots in trash planes like Nates.

btd64 -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 10:12:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Usually I train my fighter pilots to exp 50, air 70, def 70. Me too....GP

rustysi -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/23/2019 10:33:40 PM)
quote: CAP some relatively helpless enemy base that they can use as a "live fire range". Not necessary. To get a fighter pilots' experience to rise, just CAP his own base at 100%, zero range. Fastest way to increase a fighter pilots' experience other than constant combat. quote: Attacking LCUs with fighters is to me just nuts. Its possible to get good results in China, but not just strafing. Bomb at 1k and the fighters may strafe as well.

GetAssista -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 9:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awaw Quick poll with the JFBs. IJA starts with a bunch of “almost ready” Pilots in high 50 xp, 60ish air/def. Do u bother to continue to train them? Their high xp-to-air/def ratio suggest it may be better to just start off with a fresh batch of trainees. I pull those start fighter pilots that have 50-59 air to train to 70 like the usual rookies. They are not that slow to catch up, although surely their skill training is slower compared to 30-40xp rookies. Other types like bombers or recons catch up on the job except for bombers with relatively high starting ASW that I pull to train as ASW specialists (XP is very important there). I also try to find a window to train up defense (up to 70) for higher skilled fighters, but then those windows are readily available in AI games. Not so in PBEMs

obvert -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 10:39:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awaw Quick poll with the JFBs. IJA starts with a bunch of “almost ready” Pilots in high 50 xp, 60ish air/def. Do u bother to continue to train them? Their high xp-to-air/def ratio suggest it may be better to just start off with a fresh batch of trainees. Any pilots starting with 50+exp will be take longer to train in skill areas. Use those pilots, primarily for defense. Use your best 70+ exp and 70 air skill pilots for sweeps. Training fighter pilots is two pronged. Get air skill up to 65-70, then get defensive skill up to 65-70. The EXP will increase when training both areas. I train 100% sweep at 10k (zero hex) until they're at least at 40exp and mostly at 70 air skill. Then switch to 100% sweep at 100ft to get defensive skill up to 65-70. This will usually get exp to 48-50 as well by the time the majority are ready. Then they usually go into rear areas for CAP to increase EXP further. When they're over 65 EXP they're good for CAP and at 70+ EXP good for sweeps. As the game goes on there are moments when you'll compromise your principles. Or find that somehow your best sweeping group has several 80 EXP double ace pilots with 30 defensive skill. How did that happen? It just does. Periodically I cull the low defensive skill pilots and train up in a group of other highly experienced piltos. If they're mixed in with rookies they will hardly train, (differences in expeience levels inhibit training speed of the higher experience pilots in a group).

HansBolter -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 12:08:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter If you adjust training as outlined by the two veterans above, monitoring it every couple of months at a minimum, you can have pilots with 55-60 experience and 70+ skills ready for transfer to reserve every six months. And, yes I meant 70+. The stated limit of 70 skill level for training is not a hard limit. I have routinely found pilots gaining over 70 in a given skill when I forget to monitor and adjust to training a new skill. Left to train one skill ad-infinitum it WILL increase skills above 70, but its better to switch training at 70 to get increases in Experience. Oh, and unlike BBFanboy, I train my sweeps at 100 feet to gain defensive skill. Either 100 or 1,000 works, it's just a personal preference. Question, Hans: I have always heard that at 100 feet the Air skill does not get trained even if the training mission is set for Sweep or Escort. Only Strafe skill trains at 100 feet. If you can say for sure the Air skill continues to increase at that altitude, I need to adjust my advice on the point! No I am not saying Air skill increases with Training Sweeps at 100 feet. I've already gotten my Air skills to 70 before switching to training Sweeps at 100 feet. Training Sweep at 100 feet after getting Air to 70 results in gains in Defense and Experience, not Air.

HansBolter -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 12:12:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: CAP some relatively helpless enemy base that they can use as a "live fire range". Not necessary. To get a fighter pilots' experience to rise, just CAP his own base at 100%, zero range. Fastest way to increase a fighter pilots' experience other than constant combat. quote: Attacking LCUs with fighters is to me just nuts. Its possible to get good results in China, but not just strafing. Bomb at 1k and the fighters may strafe as well. Strafing finally comes forward as a viable techniques for degrading ground units in '45. I can dig up plenty of combat reports showing outstanding results with A26Bs, Beaufighters and Misquitos. Yes, its still only viable in open terrain. Decent results in heavy terrain are still few and far between.

HansBolter -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 12:18:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert As the game goes on there are moments when you'll compromise your principles. Or find that somehow your best sweeping group has several 80 EXP double ace pilots with 30 defensive skill. How did that happen? It just does. It's very common to find front line Allied pilots with 70+ Air and 30-40 Defense. This happens to inexperienced pilots who are thrust into the role of flying CAP from day one of the war. Daily CAP missions will fairly quickly raise Air skill, but gains in Defense will only come from actual combat interaction. In areas with no immediate combat, but a need for daily CAP, its routine to find high Air skill pilots with low Defense skill after a few months of operations.

mind_messing -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 12:29:50 PM)
To add to Obvert's post, there's value in segmenting your pilots based on their EXP level. The game engine seems to reward this as well, with squadron average EXP seeming to be a die roll for certain aspects. My rule of thumb is a four tiered approach: - 2nd Grade pilots: 50-60 EXP - the rookies just out of training, get sent to backwater theatres to build EXP on bombing milk runs or low risk operations (such as defensive CAP, NavS and ASW). - 1st Grade pilots: 60-70 EXP - assigned to frontline operations in high risk areas. - Elite pilots: 70-80 EXP - the get the best airframes and are earmarked for offensive operations and special duties (night attacks ect) - Everyone 81 EXP or above goes to TRACOM till mid '44, then into the best airframes. While skills are important, IMO the difference between a good air force and a great one lies in the 20 EXP points between 50 EXP and 70 EXP. In short, one squadron with 70 EXP and one with 50 EXP is better than two squadrons both at 60 EXP.

awaw -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 1:19:51 PM)
Obvert/mind, I understand the logic behind diminishing returns of higher xp Pilots. But I lack the play exp to judge. In my cited example, at game start, what is your call on how to use the Pilots in 9/33 Sentai? They have higher xp than future grads from the pure rookie pools, yet lower skills. Sounds like lower returns. Are they still worth hording the training slots of 2 fighter squadrons? My concern is that the number of trains slots of IJA are essentially “fixed”, subject to how one relegates frontline squadron to training duties.

awaw -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 1:32:07 PM)
And so another question, Training sweep @ 10,000 gives us 70 air, 50 def, 40xp Training sweep @ 1000 gives us (I assume) slightly lesser air but more def. Training strafe @ 100 gives us strafe and def & xp Now, does it make sense to just train @ sweep/1000 then switch strafe/100? Trade off some strafe stats for a tiny decrease in training time? Assuming I care nuts about strafing stats.

mind_messing -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 3:35:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awaw Obvert/mind, I understand the logic behind diminishing returns of higher xp Pilots. But I lack the play exp to judge. In my cited example, at game start, what is your call on how to use the Pilots in 9/33 Sentai? They have higher xp than future grads from the pure rookie pools, yet lower skills. Sounds like lower returns. Are they still worth hording the training slots of 2 fighter squadrons? My concern is that the number of trains slots of IJA are essentially “fixed”, subject to how one relegates frontline squadron to training duties. I throw them into the reserve pool, then consolidate them in a squadron flying Nates. A couple weeks flying either training missions or defensive CAP normally makes them pretty solid, even if they're not 50/70/70 in EXP/Air/Def. Once you're happy with the average skill levels give them Oscars and send them off. I really can't overstate the value of EXP, IMO you need to nurture it from day one. The respective skills are important, but they're very easy to train in a comparatively short length of time. A ASW squadron with EXP/ASW levels of 50/70 isn't going to be nearly as effective as one with 70/70.

awaw -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/24/2019 11:43:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: awaw Obvert/mind, I understand the logic behind diminishing returns of higher xp Pilots. But I lack the play exp to judge. In my cited example, at game start, what is your call on how to use the Pilots in 9/33 Sentai? They have higher xp than future grads from the pure rookie pools, yet lower skills. Sounds like lower returns. Are they still worth hording the training slots of 2 fighter squadrons? My concern is that the number of trains slots of IJA are essentially “fixed”, subject to how one relegates frontline squadron to training duties. I throw them into the reserve pool, then consolidate them in a squadron flying Nates. A couple weeks flying either training missions or defensive CAP normally makes them pretty solid, even if they're not 50/70/70 in EXP/Air/Def. Once you're happy with the average skill levels give them Oscars and send them off. I really can't overstate the value of EXP, IMO you need to nurture it from day one. The respective skills are important, but they're very easy to train in a comparatively short length of time. A ASW squadron with EXP/ASW levels of 50/70 isn't going to be nearly as effective as one with 70/70. Thank you for the reply (and also @GetAssista for your call). It is interesting. I recalled sometime back, I had an idea, to train def skills in China (for those with def slightly less than 70, just to bring them over the bump) by strafing missions instead of doing training. So I set up a sandbox, setting 3 Nate squadrons with 60ish xp, and 60<def <70 strafing a defenceless Chinese unit. I did it for 3 turns straight, and the Pilots clock anywhere between 3-5 missions. However, not a single one of them get any xp or def. 2 Pilots did get a strafe skill increase though. I got discouraged and thought it would be better to just do “training” versus “on job training”.

mind_messing -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/25/2019 11:08:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awaw quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: awaw Obvert/mind, I understand the logic behind diminishing returns of higher xp Pilots. But I lack the play exp to judge. In my cited example, at game start, what is your call on how to use the Pilots in 9/33 Sentai? They have higher xp than future grads from the pure rookie pools, yet lower skills. Sounds like lower returns. Are they still worth hording the training slots of 2 fighter squadrons? My concern is that the number of trains slots of IJA are essentially “fixed”, subject to how one relegates frontline squadron to training duties. I throw them into the reserve pool, then consolidate them in a squadron flying Nates. A couple weeks flying either training missions or defensive CAP normally makes them pretty solid, even if they're not 50/70/70 in EXP/Air/Def. Once you're happy with the average skill levels give them Oscars and send them off. I really can't overstate the value of EXP, IMO you need to nurture it from day one. The respective skills are important, but they're very easy to train in a comparatively short length of time. A ASW squadron with EXP/ASW levels of 50/70 isn't going to be nearly as effective as one with 70/70. Thank you for the reply (and also @GetAssista for your call). It is interesting. I recalled sometime back, I had an idea, to train def skills in China (for those with def slightly less than 70, just to bring them over the bump) by strafing missions instead of doing training. So I set up a sandbox, setting 3 Nate squadrons with 60ish xp, and 60<def <70 strafing a defenceless Chinese unit. I did it for 3 turns straight, and the Pilots clock anywhere between 3-5 missions. However, not a single one of them get any xp or def. 2 Pilots did get a strafe skill increase though. I got discouraged and thought it would be better to just do “training” versus “on job training”. The best method to build EXP on fighter pilots is to have them fly CAP at a rear-area base. They'll slowly build EXP doing this. For squadrons that can't fly CAP, flying milk run bombing missions is about as good as it gets. As a result, EXP is very easy to build on fighter pilots, and much less so on bomber pilots. This is why wrapping your pilots in cotton wool is important!

geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/26/2019 7:46:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: CAP some relatively helpless enemy base that they can use as a "live fire range". Not necessary. To get a fighter pilots' experience to rise, just CAP his own base at 100%, zero range. Fastest way to increase a fighter pilots' experience other than constant combat. quote: Attacking LCUs with fighters is to me just nuts. Its possible to get good results in China, but not just strafing. Bomb at 1k and the fighters may strafe as well. Strafing finally comes forward as a viable techniques for degrading ground units in '45. I can dig up plenty of combat reports showing outstanding results with A26Bs, Beaufighters and Misquitos. Yes, its still only viable in open terrain. Decent results in heavy terrain are still few and far between. The Misquitos carry malaria don't they? Or do they deliver bad Mexican food?

geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/26/2019 7:51:48 AM)
Oops, I think I mosspelled something.

rustysi -> RE: Pilot Training Queston (4/27/2019 6:26:30 PM)
quote: The best method to build EXP on fighter pilots is to have them fly CAP at a rear-area base. They'll slowly build EXP doing this. Again, CAP, zero, 100%. Much quicker, at least for those 50ish experienced pilots.

Page: [1]

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.671875