Attack outcome (Full Version)

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mrhuggles -> Attack outcome (4/24/2019 9:01:14 PM)

Hello, i am a new player, is this a normal attack outcome? I tried really hard on it



[image]https://i.imgur.com/3ThiS9c.jpg[/image]



MattFL -> RE: Attack outcome (4/24/2019 9:14:14 PM)

There must be more involved than what is shown on this screen, but seeing the LOST of 11,000+ men is pretty shocking. Also, seems that you have the +1 in effect for the Soviets, actual odds are 1.38:1. What was the situation, were the defenders Isolated or anything? Can't get my head around the 11k lost in July '41 of all things...



mrhuggles -> RE: Attack outcome (4/24/2019 9:53:17 PM)

After some investigation i believe I have found the cause, this infantry unit has very high morale, causing it to do significant damage to the axis units:

[image]https://i.imgur.com/cnBvSk9.jpg[/image]



Crackaces -> RE: Attack outcome (4/24/2019 10:45:19 PM)

There are two very distinct mechanisms in this game. CV and firepower. What was the terrain or ZOC for the retreat hex?

Soviet firepower did this damage .. CV only determines if it is a held or a retreat. Some of this has to be retreat casualties? with the logistics phase attrition causing even more German losses .. ..



SparkleyTits -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 1:14:09 AM)

[X(]



Seminole -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 3:08:07 AM)

Did they have to retreat through multiple hexes (with enemy ZOC)?



thedoctorking -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 3:10:14 AM)

Poor morale of the Slovakian Mobile Brigade? But they are listed as retreating, not shattered or surrendered. I'd say most of these losses were retreat casualties, if the defenders had to retreat through a bunch of ZOC's.

I see 1000+ guns on the Soviet side. Lots of firepower can cause a lot of damage.

Look at the "show details" tab on the battle report for more information.



xhoel -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 8:39:59 AM)

This must be a bug of sorts. The losses are way too high even for a retreat through enemy ZOC. We are talking about 2 German Infantry divisions + a Slovakian Mobile one defending in July of 1941. There is no way in hell that the Soviets were able to inflict that many casualties especially considering that they only outnumbered the defenders 2 to 1 in both men and guns. Even if the Slovakians had routed, the casualties would have been much lower. This is the kind of casualties that are taken when units are surrounded and destroyed.

The morale of the Soviet division is nothing spectacular and cannot have been the cause for such a result.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 2:18:32 PM)

What are the EXP levels of the divisions, air, SU you are using?
EXP is much more important than morale for causing losses

11k though! [X(]
I've never been able to get anything close to this off of a mere retreat so something funny may be happening as Xhoel suggested?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 3:15:34 PM)

What patch was the result obtained under?




Kantti -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 8:29:35 PM)

There are also some odd results now on Soviet side. I am playing bitter end and am now on turn 11. No major encirclements after first turns, but Germans still capture tens of thousand soviets each turn just from normal casualties. Has this always been this way (and now visible because no isolated units are inflating the count) or is this something new?



Crackaces -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 9:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kantti

There are also some odd results now on Soviet side. I am playing bitter end and am now on turn 11. No major encirclements after first turns, but Germans still capture tens of thousand soviets each turn just from normal casualties. Has this always been this way (and now visible because no isolated units are inflating the count) or is this something new?


By "normal" casualties .. there is a spectrum of engagements. All the way from a hasty attack vs a unit in terrain retreating to terrain no zoc all the way to a deliberate attack with units "soaked" in SU's and supported by HQ's "soaked" with SU's vs a target well ZOC'ed with a retreat across a major river. I have seen an increase in captures and especially in the logistics phase with situations more like the latter.

When enough firepower is brought into play I am finding more disabled squads/devices and then on the initial retreat disabled squads are checked for destroyed. ZOC's and rivers add tremendously. There are consecutive die rolls for every device. If this is not the situation and randomly a situation more like the former is causing huge casualties .. I would then venture there is a bug. But we need to know more about the behavior.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 9:21:27 PM)

One situation I could think that might explain your conundrum is that Soviets can get some relative numbers captured without encirclements when instigating fighting retreats through Axis ZOC to escape isolation, those kind of situations etc

It leads to higher capture rates, same goes for Axis as they force themselves through ZOC too



No idea -> RE: Attack outcome (4/25/2019 9:31:20 PM)

Wow. I have never seen those casualties for the germans unless surrendering, something they hqvent. And it is july 41... frankly I dont know how you got those numbers but you hit the jackpot.



mrhuggles -> RE: Attack outcome (5/1/2019 8:07:35 PM)

Thank you for the insightful replies everyone.
Those are some interesting theories crackaces, i looked into what you said.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/q24zBOg.jpg[/image]

Perhaps this howitzer is the cause of these casualties. It has a formidable 43 guns. Doing some quick calculations this means each gun would only have to kill or disable 256.11 Axis soldiers each, a reasonable sum IMO.

@HLYA This is on the current patch

@SparkleTit Hmmmm, good idea but that seems a little unrealistic





mrhuggles -> RE: Attack outcome (6/15/2019 12:32:27 AM)

Unfortunately, despite brave Soviet efforts, not every offensive action can be a success. For instance, due to bad luck this prudent attack was a failure. [:(]



[image]https://i.imgur.com/toWBEfK.png[/image]




Fetterkrolle -> RE: Attack outcome (12/8/2019 6:22:54 PM)

I can't believe I have not seen this post yet. I was the axis player in this game and this was by far the best part of our game.



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