SAM/AAA vs aircrafts

SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (Full Version)

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Linda_Sheffield -> SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 12:39:26 PM)
Currently aircrafts (mostly planes) is too durable. Most of the planes can survive numerous hits of SAM, continue mission and suppress airdefence. In some cases it leads to ridiculous situations - light choppers like linx taking whole 16 missiles from TOR and moving away on it's own. Skyraiders that can head on attack 4 shilka, kill them and fly away... Same with Strela. That just primers, i will not go in detail here. I cannot say anything about western SAM/SPAA as i do not have sufficient amount info on them, but russian systems underpowered right now.

Veitikka -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 12:57:12 PM)
There has been some discussion about the SAM efficiency here. One important thing to know is that the aircraft are not hit every time even if a missile explodes. What usually happens is that the aircraft is forced to abort the attack and breaks away.

Veitikka -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 1:07:55 PM)
This is an old thread, but has different viewpoints on the subject: www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4560459

Linda_Sheffield -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 1:25:40 PM)
Yes i know that visuals is not that informative, but problem is they do not break away when they should statistically. Problems with helicopters for example - Tor, Tunguska, OSA cannot miss all lauches on static target (even in case of ECM - they all got optical channels), so we should get hits or close proximity - light chopper cannot withstand even 1 and keep going. Protected ones can, like Apache or Mi-24, but even they will go down on 2 hits of such missiles. SPAA's - ok for zsu-57-2 i have no objections - it lacks proper fire control, but examples of super sabres and skyraiders against Shilka is simply hilarious sometimes (too many times). I can go on other systems but i think you got what i mean. (sorry for english though, isn't my native) PS:Oh, now i see your second post, tnx.

Javolenus -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 9:32:37 PM)
Does the size of the map affect AA effectiveness? For example, do AA systems find it harder to hit aircraft on the small (minimum-size) maps?

Linda_Sheffield -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/13/2019 9:47:13 PM)
i may be wrong, but my tests indicates - Heavy SAM systems got quite big minimum range zone and on small maps planes have a chance to get into minrange safely, before SAM reacts.

nikolas93TS -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/14/2019 2:17:44 AM)
I was suggesting to give radar-equipped units some kind of hard-coded accuracy bonus vs air. Problem with AA ammunition is that it becomes excessively deadly against ground targets if accuracy is increased, which is not realistic given the ranges they posses. What personally worry me is excessive vulnerability of vehicle mounted AA systems, they are always prioritized by air assets and die quickly. On the other hand, there must be a valid way to neutralize them.

Javolenus -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/14/2019 7:38:37 AM)
Good points. I only recently started playing this game, and so far, only on small ("minimum") maps. What I've seen so far, in my games, is: -AA systems target aircraft ("target lines" are visible) but do not fire in time. -No fixed-wing aircraft have been "killed" by AA. -Several helicopters have been "killed" by AA, and they seem quite vulnerable. -AA guns have been firing against ground (armoured) units, and scoring "kills". I should mention that I only played with Finland v. USSR so far. And so I wondered if these factors are particular to small maps, or if it is the general situation across all maps?

Linda_Sheffield -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/14/2019 8:36:38 AM)
The way around - leave AA-ammo as it is and instead lower survivability of some aircrafts.

Veitikka -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/15/2019 9:24:39 PM)
One thing I realized is that usually after the enemy aircraft have passed the anti-air units are facing a wrong direction. Perhaps after they've stopped engaging an air target they should automatically place a 'rotate' waypoint in the center of the enemy setup zone, so they will be ready when the next aircraft arrive.

Lowlaner2012 -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/16/2019 8:40:42 AM)
I have had my planes shot down and I have shot down AI planes, although I tend to play on large maps(12000 by 8000), so my SAMs and AA have a decent amount of time to engage them multiple times... Maybe it's linked to how big of a map you are paying on? On small maps the fixed wing units are that fast that they are in and out of the battle area before the anti air units can target and fire at them... Could the SAMs with longer ranges start engaging the planes slightly before and slightly after they enter and leave the battle area? (If that's possible in the game engine) I have also shot down some helos, or chased them off if they are in range of tank guns...

exsonic01 -> RE: SAM/AAA vs aircrafts (5/18/2019 4:03:29 AM)
I'm OK to increase radar SAM accuracy, but can we also have dedicated [SEAD/DEAD] mission airplanes, like current airplanes have [napalm],[CAS] trait? Then, give them much higher chance to engage against, or allow them only fight against enemy radar AA or AA shooting at them. It would be great if AB could model anti radiation missiles with expensive point price, as a high tier SEAD/DEAD asset. But I'm not sure what devs are thinking about ARM. My guess is CAS mission also would get SEAD/DEAD support (with ARM) during cold war, especially for the battle against PACT OMG (operational maneuvering group) at least for NATO. So I guess it would be historically OKish to depict them in this game. Anyway, it would be great to have SEAD/DEAD dedicated planes armed with rockets + machine gun + laser guided bombs/iron bombs, or rockets + machine gun + ARM. This was standard for Wild Weasel during Vietnam war. Plus, it would be great to have EW option. It is not possible to depict EW capability 100% accurate, but still it is possible to abstract. CMANO, FPC-RS and CMBS shows some good example of EW abstraction.

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