Entrenchments (Full Version)

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gamer78 -> Entrenchments (6/7/2019 7:49:32 PM)

I think from screenshots inf won't be able to form trenches by themselves unlike WW1 Breakthrough. Maybe only art and recon bombers units reduce entrenchment.

It was my favorite SC game. Glad to be in development.[:)]



crispy131313 -> RE: Entrenchments (6/7/2019 8:57:56 PM)

The late game screenshot shows most Corps entrenched though



steevodeevo -> RE: Entrenchments (6/13/2019 7:28:43 AM)

I wonder, whether we will have entrenchment, as per previous SC games which is reflected in the unit's stats, or rather more in line with the WW1 era where we had constructed entrenchments providing unit entrenchment bonuses (of course), but also barriers to enemy movement, as with rivers and fortifications, and enhancing friendly supply (supply trenches) and which are visible on the map? I truly hope we have some or all of these features as it defines much of WW1 combat doctrine.



wodin -> RE: Entrenchments (6/13/2019 9:50:35 AM)

So far only WW1 Gold has managed to do both trench warfare and manoeuvre warfare well in the same game. Though SCWW1 comes 2nd.



gamer78 -> RE: Entrenchments (6/16/2019 10:45:43 PM)

WW1 Gold was a special game unfortunately it didn't get what it deserve. It was very detailed about rules. I remember Slavic troops had morale penalty fighting against Russia. Inside Austria-Hungary troops.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Entrenchments (6/19/2019 11:13:45 AM)

Strategic Command World War I will have trenches just like we did in our previous releases, however we'll now have 3 different levels of trenches that coincide with the level of Trench Warfare a nation has achieved.

Essentially units can select to build a trench, including within a town, city etc., and the trenches will go from a single depth trench, to a double row trench, to a more fortified entrenched position. We've also added the graphical effect of shell craters for any entrenched position that has been targeted with artillery and so on.

Trench facings also have an effect on the defensive bonuses, much like existing fortifications do for our WWII games, and it looks and works quite nicely in game.

We hope to have some additional screenshots in the next little while to reflect all of this.



xwormwood -> RE: Entrenchments (6/19/2019 9:39:47 PM)

Sounds fantastic Hubert!



steevodeevo -> RE: Entrenchments (6/20/2019 9:18:18 AM)

That's awesome news, can't wait. Please take my money now!



Hubert Cater -> RE: Entrenchments (6/21/2019 1:33:37 PM)

Here is a work in progress early screenshot of what the front lines might look like a little later in game, double entrenchment lines with some shell crater marks for hexes that have been heavily contested:

[image]http://www.furysoftware.com/images/21.06.2019/wwi_trenches.png[/image]



Raptor341 -> RE: Entrenchments (6/21/2019 9:45:55 PM)

Looks great!



steevodeevo -> RE: Entrenchments (6/22/2019 2:44:24 PM)

Wow! didn't expect it to look so different, but hoped it would be and so pleased.



Cfant -> RE: Entrenchments (7/1/2019 11:57:07 AM)

Äh... won't this end in the whole map full of trenches? Belgium looks so small. Was it so small in the original game?



Hubert Cater -> RE: Entrenchments (7/2/2019 8:05:08 PM)

The way trenches will work in game, it could very well lead to a concentration of trenches wherever there are concentrations of opposing units on the map (as in real life), however once areas are run over or abandoned the trenches will disappear from game. If a trench is captured, it can be 're-engineered' to face a new direction, and thus maximize its benefits if squaring off against your opponent from this recently captured position, if desired as well.



Simulacra53 -> RE: Entrenchments (7/3/2019 4:38:33 PM)

Looking good and also a good system.
Concentrated units, which are static for more than one turn - each turn getting stronger, but tru fortification (bunkers etc) should IMO be a player action costing some token points. Same with using captured trenches, the more evolved the trench the higher the “change facing cost” because you just do not change the facing of bunkers etc overnight.



Simulacra53 -> RE: Entrenchments (7/3/2019 4:40:00 PM)

Just a wild idea, but maybe have some mining as well?
Where you have engineers dig a mine to punch through the line (in game lower the entrenchment level).



wodin -> RE: Entrenchments (7/4/2019 2:55:47 PM)

I do wish hex size had have been smaller even to the point of smaller scale as the Western Front was a major aspect of the War and when a game scale reduces the whole front to a few hexes disappoints.

Take Belgium and "the salient" Ypres. This was scene of three major battles during first three years of the War, the first in 14 more or less finishing Britians regular army. It was a big part of the War and major taker of lives so again it's sad when a games scale probably won't highlight this.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cfant

Äh... won't this end in the whole map full of trenches? Belgium looks so small. Was it so small in the original game?




Simulacra53 -> RE: Entrenchments (7/4/2019 5:03:57 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/504/details/Strategic.Command.WWII.War.in.Europe

Although the scale seems to be the same between SC3 War in Europe and World War I, Belgium seems tombe different - compare Antwerp.



sol_invictus -> RE: Entrenchments (7/17/2019 10:53:04 PM)

Really nice screenshot. Love the graphical style.



CSSS -> RE: Entrenchments (7/23/2019 1:35:41 PM)

The two best grand strategy games I have played, over 42 years of computer gaming are, Strategic Command World at War the 20 years of delightful progression it took

to achieve is remarkable! Secondly is as stated World War One gold, a vastly under recognized gem that is simply beyond compare. It is based of the Boardgame

La Grand Guerra.in 1914 there was , the battle of the frontiers, then the battle of maneuvers, then it settled into trench warfare all in 1914. The Eastern front never really did
settle into trench warfare, although the Greek/ Bulgarian front did. The Near east also did such. As the proud owner of everything Hubert has done I as always looking forward to his and Bills adaptive genius at work!



ringoblood -> RE: Entrenchments (11/11/2019 10:16:47 PM)

Now that's great news to see. Nice screenshots, Hubert. Thanks. Looking forwards to seeing the Trenches in action upon release.



shri -> RE: Entrenchments (11/18/2019 4:07:31 PM)

Just a few suggestion-
1. The Eastern, Balkan, Ottoman fronts should be max level 2 trenches (considering the level 6 1.0 had)
2. The Italians and Western should only be a max trenches

Why?
It is anachronistic to see a fully entrenched multi-layer Defense in Depth in the East.
Trench wasn't just one line, it was 3-4 lines with counter-attacking artillery and infantry with heavy artillery in the rear, machine gun nests, pillboxes, strong points etc.


Secondly,
The French Army should start out with low defensive as the Russian and AH armies. With level1 they should get the full defensive equal to the British and German ones.
The ottomans and minor allies should never be able to reach level 3 (or whatever maximum level of infantry prescribed). Again extremely anachronistic.

Thirdly,
The British starting army and the German regular corps (but not German reserve corps) should start with a bonus morale in 1914. This is to showcase the superb training and equipment present with the pre war Frontline corps of these 2 nations.

Fourth,
Austria and Germany should start with Artillery level1 researched and have 1 of it each, maybe Austrian guns can have deployment in West or Serbia or Galicia and rest should start at level 0.

Fifth,
The British and German Navies should also have a higher morale than other navies.
Again, quality of warships of AH, Italy, Russia wasn't upto the mark.

P.S.: WW1 Gold is the Gold standard for modeling these things quite perfectly.



ArtDen -> RE: Entrenchments (11/19/2019 11:07:52 AM)

Disagree.

Current approach is great and a classical SC WW1 Breakthrough is my argument. Play it and you will see - all you "problems" are not problems at all.
And of course this game is free for modding if you want.

And some words about entrenchments. Main problem during WW1 in the West was not unbreacheble lines but too much troops pek km2 and too little temp of offensive. As a result - very fast counter-punches and front further stabilization. In the history of the Eastern front we have many examples of very static positions with good entrenchments. But too huge front-line and too little divisions in the current reserve near a breachpoint - this was the main reason of more or less dynamic front-line. And this fact is greatly modelled. Doesn't matter how many Russians corps you can create (especially when you have "production limit on"). Many positions will be unprotected or w/o reserves, esp. after obtain of great German artillery in mass. The same for H/A ir Ottomans in thE Middle-East.

Similar counter-arguments can be presented for every point. As a result - just give a chance to this game and try to play. And only after some campaigns, I think, we can make more or less argumented wishlist.



VonVogelberg -> RE: Entrenchments (2/18/2020 7:41:27 AM)

Talking about entrenchments. I noted elsewhere that when a unit entrenches in this game and them you try to entrench again (ie: extend the trenches to more hex sides) the original trenches just disappear. I believe this could be considered for a correction in the next update. Thanks.



The Land -> RE: Entrenchments (2/18/2020 10:40:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VonVogelberg

Talking about entrenchments. I noted elsewhere that when a unit entrenches in this game and them you try to entrench again (ie: extend the trenches to more hex sides) the original trenches just disappear. I believe this could be considered for a correction in the next update. Thanks.


That is a feature - you can't have units entrenching on more than 3 hex sides. This ensures that there is a benefit to turning your opponents' flanks, and prevents a whole front being made up of ahistorical hex-size hedgehogs.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Entrenchments (2/18/2020 8:31:45 PM)

Since this post is on the front page again, I noticed one thing:
Compare to the work in progress early screenshot in this post to the final game, Belgium does not have the fortified town of Namur next to the Brussels.



The Land -> RE: Entrenchments (2/19/2020 7:03:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

Since this post is on the front page again, I noticed one thing:
Compare to the work in progress early screenshot in this post to the final game, Belgium does not have the fortified town of Namur next to the Brussels.


Likely it was taken out to balance the first months of the war - Germany has a hard time getting as far into France as it did historically, having a fort there would make that even more challenging.



BillRunacre -> RE: Entrenchments (2/19/2020 1:18:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VonVogelberg

Talking about entrenchments. I noted elsewhere that when a unit entrenches in this game and them you try to entrench again (ie: extend the trenches to more hex sides) the original trenches just disappear. I believe this could be considered for a correction in the next update. Thanks.


That's right. The only reason to entrench again would be to change the facing of your trenches, e.g. if a new threat appears from a new flank.

Once a unit is entrenched, it will automatically gain 1 entrenchment level per turn up to its maximum, so you can just entrench them once and (providing the situation doesn't change) leave it at that.



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