New rules of movement (1.09) (Full Version)

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terminator -> New rules of movement (1.09) (6/10/2019 6:57:05 AM)

Ronald Wendt (4/22/2019 10:08:53 AM)

The idea i have in mind is simple: the movement points and the movement costs will be multiplied by 10 for ground actions. This gives us room for more subtle movement costs which hopefully will ease the burden of the panzers while still making a difference for the types and the different tracks, which was the goal in the first place.

So if you have costs of -11 (instead of the normal -10) then you will have one less hex for values beneath 120 (e.g. a tank with former 12 MPs) and two hexes less for greater values. With the old values it would be a rigid number for MPs so either -1 or -2 which would be exactly the hexes you get less every time.

It should guarantee a minimum of mobility while limiting the maximum range in a better way.

Actually this would be something where i could use your direct help by beta testing this feature so we can adjust/judge it together.

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Ronald Wendt(4/23/2019 6:29:29 AM)

Here is a little table with some example values. I used 16 and 7 as max. & min. as these are the fringes of mobile units i saw when i took a glimpse at the movement values. Its just to see how it effects both of those ends. The values are x10 in the table as are the imaginary costs. The "hexes" is the maximum number of hexes such a unit could move with each having the costs above that value. You can see that with this "system" we can 1. cut down a high number as 16 hexes while still have a minimum movement on the low end (costs at 35) and 2. can do a lot more steps like at costs = 15 when 160 gets 10 (-6) hexes and 120 gets 8 (-4) instead of all units getting the same e.g. (-2 or -3).

Higher values will be more affected than lower ones, ensuring a minimum mobility. In theory this should be better, but i agree with AngrySwan you have to play with it. But i am sure its a step up for the winter rules and maybe some other areas.
[image]local://upfiles/33508/FE94FD4ED5564657B2C20DAC34737C0A.jpg[/image]



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/11/2019 6:05:38 AM)

Hi terminator,

in your preview of 1.09 you will not see the values x10 as this is done internally only to keep things as much as possible like they were for the players. The only inconvenience is a decimal number for snow hexes in the tooltips etc.



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/27/2019 5:27:53 AM)

First test (v1-09 Preview) to make sure I understood the new movement calculation system (?)

[image]local://upfiles/33508/A19E29BE28F34C978279664EB9206B46.jpg[/image]
(v1-09 Preview)



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/27/2019 5:53:46 AM)

After moving (v1-09 Preview):

[image]local://upfiles/33508/EE9A699C5A0946229E69EA5F89D19A14.jpg[/image]
(v1-09 Preview)



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/27/2019 4:00:10 PM)

Hi terminator,

yes, thats how it should work.



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/28/2019 5:32:47 AM)

Winter travel rules :

The scenario Zithomir is currently with 1.08 unplayable because mobile artillery units are virtually paralyzed in snow (Panzerwerfer 42 & Wespe).

With version 1.08 in Zithomir :

[image]local://upfiles/33508/20F93AF2E7874EF48CFA9D0B44AD2715.jpg[/image]
(version 1.08)



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/28/2019 5:36:49 AM)

With 1.09 preview, it's much better in Zithomir :

[image]local://upfiles/33508/E5300B8D5FEC4E7F80B3311C3AF26247.jpg[/image]
(1.09 preview)



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/28/2019 8:20:57 AM)

Hi terminator,

looks like the idea works as hoped. It is harder on units with high range than on those with low range as it grinds a little bit per hex. In my current Leningrad '44 tests it also felt right so far.



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/29/2019 5:14:08 AM)

No Winterketten for Tiger I ?

[image]local://upfiles/33508/0B8911C658B54595B4203A2F34A484F1.jpg[/image]
(with 1.09 preview)

I guess you have to understand for Movement Penalties (x10):
- Hills -> +30
- Swamp -> +20
- Snow -> +2
- Forest -> +10



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (6/29/2019 5:18:26 AM)

Tiger I with Winterketten :

[image]local://upfiles/33508/9352827FE1BE42B3B443D87FB52349D0.jpg[/image]



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/1/2019 5:21:14 AM)

Hi terminator,

Tigers did not have Winterketten, they had the so called Ostkette (east track) as a standard thus they have the lowest penalty in snow. Its not mentioned because that was the case from the start, while the other units upgraded their tracks during the war. They get the remark once the upgrade is done which is caused automatically after a certain date.



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/2/2019 4:22:03 AM)

For a unit with great mobility (1/2):

Zithomir with version 1.08 :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/4A4CB41D312F4A9290D2AF5A91C00D1E.jpg[/image]
(version 1.08)



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/2/2019 4:33:29 AM)

For a unit with great mobility (2/2):

Zithomir with version 1.09 preview :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/1156C04DA9EC4F2F9501981D22672213.jpg[/image]
(version 1.09 preview)



Zovs -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/2/2019 9:32:55 AM)

When is 1.09 approximately going to be released?

1 month?
1-3 months?
3-6 months?
Longer?

Just curious.



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/3/2019 6:33:54 AM)

Hi Zovs,

the current goal is about a month, but its possible it will be two as progress is slow atm. If it would take longer i would be like [&:][:@][:(]



Zovs -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/3/2019 10:00:14 AM)

Thanks Ronald



klhbekool -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/3/2019 1:34:37 PM)

Ronald,thanks again for all that you have put into this game.[&o]
[&o]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/5/2019 6:53:09 AM)

On the road with 1.09 preview :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/8B7D1E01BF974C92B379B4A7EA6B0942.jpg[/image]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/6/2019 6:30:31 AM)

Influence of Weather, Snow (version 1.09 preview):

[image]local://upfiles/33508/CD0C1F3F15A5443AA33B516B20E58F7C.jpg[/image]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/7/2019 4:56:09 AM)

There’s always what I’d already called the "pathfinding bug"(http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4233752)

Why can not reach the hexagon on the road next to Zithomir ?

Version 1.09 preview with FOW :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/2BEB37958DCD4EB09FB7F244859EBB9A.jpg[/image]




terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/7/2019 5:00:33 AM)

This is due to the enemies' ZOC, it reduces the movement points to the point where the unit cannot enter that hex.
The problem is that enemies' ZOC of hidden units should not influence the pathfinding with Fog of war activated.


Version 1.09 preview without FOW :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/C1B1DF2BB8DD49FE8C84EC35A6C44393.jpg[/image]



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/8/2019 5:00:03 AM)

Hi folks,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Thanks Ronald


You are welcome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: klhbekool

Ronald,thanks again for all that you have put into this game.[&o]
[&o]


Thanks. Getting support and cheers is contributing to the struggle. And an end (the release of 1.09) is in sight.


quote:

ORIGINAL: terminator

This is due to the enemies' ZOC, it reduces the movement points to the point where the unit cannot enter that hex.
The problem is that enemies' ZOC of hidden units should not influence the pathfinding with Fog of war activated.



Its true that this can be used to identify locations of enemy units and its not ideal. I remember having seen this problem long ago (during the making of the A-A campaign) and there was no fast/easy solution to this. Maybe now it can be done (its a question of the amount of programming time). I will let you know.



AngrySwan -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/8/2019 7:59:25 PM)

Hi Ronald,

If it takes too much programming time, this feature can be explained with intelligence. The divisional recon unit spotted enemy patrols in the area (although it could not get information about what enemy force controls the area and how strong it is) and advised the division commander not to go there.

The same feature works for aircraft, which can be explained by skilled German interrogators like Major von Boehm from the Americam training film ''Resisting Enemy Interrogation.'' I would not want to be interrogated by him. Since I like to talk, he would announce that they have decided not to interrogate me because I have no valuable information anyway, then offer me a bottle of red wine and start what seems to be an innocent chat (in reality, make statements that provoke my answers on topics interesting for him, and all that with a friendly smile) and by the end of interrogation I would have become a traitor without even noticing that.



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/10/2019 5:45:03 AM)

Hi AngrySwan,

if there is too much effort, we have no choice but leave it the way it is. Nice story though [:D]

@termniator: btw. nice thread to check on all those situations in detail. Already helped to fix a small bug (forgot to change the numbers in one of the tool tips back)



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/13/2019 11:45:09 AM)

Transport vehicles do not yet have the new rules of movement.

For example, the movement rules for Trucks are identical in 1.08 and in 1.09 preview :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/0FE54235AE3F4D1BAE1A98D3FA6D7E28.jpg[/image]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/14/2019 7:31:21 AM)

Another example, the movement rules for Halftracks are identical in 1.08 and in 1.09 preview :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/D3F41105DFD345A49E468FBF1E66D118.jpg[/image]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/14/2019 9:07:03 AM)

Logically, Halftracks transport should have the same movement penalty as Panzerwerfer 42 or Wurfrahmen 40 (Snow -> +6).

Simulation in blue of Halftrack transport movement penalties in Snow :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/7FAC39C9E99B496F9FC1AAA31A92A86F.jpg[/image]



terminator -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/14/2019 1:43:21 PM)

All wheeled vehicles (PSW 222, Sd.Kfz 231, Sd.Kfz 234/2 Puma, Truck Transport...) do not currently have any movement penalty in the snow :
[image]local://upfiles/33508/A7991528D2A24D4F8A85C5FD93E2E2D9.jpg[/image]



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/17/2019 1:49:15 PM)

Hi folks,

the new narrative goes like this:

The recently appointed commander of the 101.s.Pz.Abt. uses a map of all the landscape features to plot the advance of his unit towards northeast of Zhitomir. The snow and the clouds and the pressure of the mission results in poor intelligence about what might be in that area. The commander gives the order to move out anyway hoping to gain glory.





[image]local://upfiles/32021/B8CCCA3511134C09B901151CACD73A98.jpg[/image]



Ronald Wendt -> RE: New rules of movement (1.09) (7/17/2019 2:01:22 PM)

Then just before the Tigers reach the outskirts of Zhitomir and the main road they run into prepared and experienced Soviet units. Salvos burst out of the wall of snow, some men panic and two tigers crush into each other rendering them unmovable for the time being.
Whenever the enemy is in clear sight, the Tigers inflict heavy losses. But the commander knows he made a bad move by trusting the odds of a free passage and glory is slipping away. Scouting will be increased from now on.

Or in clear language, now the ZOCs are not factored into the range preview of a unit. It was not the big deal to include i had in my memory which might indicate i am getting old [:D]

terminator: Yes the transports have no auto_upgrades (the function that enables situation based changes in the values) and sadly they won't get them in 1.09.

[image]local://upfiles/32021/6B45F27DD7534627913DD7F0FE107DDB.jpg[/image]



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