Cappaigns and scenarios? (Full Version)

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Fred98 -> Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/12/2019 10:36:30 PM)

I hope there will be scenarios, campaigns and a grand campaign?

Nobody will have the time to play only the grand campaign.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/13/2019 2:55:34 AM)

You can play 1939-1945 in one day. That is how the game is deigned. Fast play.

Right now there are 1939---1944 scenarios of Europe.

I am hoping to do some smaller ones later.



Michael T -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/13/2019 4:08:13 AM)

How many turns are in the Grand Campaign Game?



wosung -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/13/2019 11:18:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fuzzypup

You can play 1939-1945 in one day. That is how the game is deigned. Fast play.


1939-1945 in one day?! I never managed to do so in SC3 Europe.

Apparently both games do have roughly the same map scale. So why is Warplan supposed to be played so much faster than SC3? Is it b/c WP has fewer counters (like extra arty, AT, AA)? Faster turn resolution?



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/13/2019 7:57:37 PM)

This is one of the reasons for what I love Warplan : I loved Strategic Command 1 because I could do a entire campaign in a short time. The problem was that Strategic Command was a very good game, but alsol simple and not very detailled


I would have the advantages of SC1, but with more details to conduct war : in this way, Warplan is perfect : the game is not "simple", you have to very take care with wat and economy management. But it's more fast than SC3, because all has been made to place the player in this situation : "think and do" (there is no any "dispersion" of the player in a multitude of actions, he has just to definite his great options for the conduct of war. It's a real pleasure to play Warplan with this conception of "grand strategique" scale

I have set all delays for AI as "ultra short", and AI goes in 15/20 seconds.
And yes, fewer counters : a great number of counters on map is not needed in "grand strategic scale" : you have just to use them with "art of war", and warplan allows that (with multiples use of same units in a turn : great function to conduct efficient Blitzgrieg).






gwgardner -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 3:42:48 AM)

The statement above that the '39 campaign scenario could be played in one day (150+ turns) is the first thing I've heard about the game that gives me pause. For that to be true, the game has to VERY shallow.




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 3:59:50 AM)

So tonight I decided to debug and look for errors in the 1941 scenario starting at Barbarossa. So I played it for several turns. I ended my turn at the end of August and this is the result compared to a historical map of the same time comparison June 22nd to August 31st. Took me about 30m to play this out vs the A.I. and these are long turns of the game with me thinking. Until Barbarossa turns are very quick. The game slows down after the USA gets in the war and the Germans are at war with the USSR. Playing in a day can be done by someone who is familiar with the game and you are playing vs the A.I. WarPlan has a lot of automatic and quick functions if a player wants to use them.





[image]local://upfiles/45679/D3286EF705F5410BA2317270DE3F9D55.jpg[/image]



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 8:18:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner
For that to be true, the game has to VERY shallow.




But it is not[:'(]

That is the "warplan miracle" : it should be impossible, but the miracle is here = you have a game that is full of "grand strategique" subtilities, but very easely/fast to be played.

Warplan breaks definitively the classic equation : good wargame = high complexity + lenght

This game is fabulous : that is the reason for what I fight in the beta forum to be sure to have what I exactly want as interface functions and modding possibilities[:D]



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 1:08:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

The statement above that the '39 campaign scenario could be played in one day (150+ turns) is the first thing I've heard about the game that gives me pause. For that to be true, the game has to VERY shallow.




I collected all windows that may be opened in this VERY shallow game[:D]

It will allow players to create their own "help memory" (game help)
[image]https://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/19/04/79/26/quick_11.jpg[/image]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 3:03:01 PM)

welk has been a tremendous help in improving the game interface and spotting small bugs.



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 3:15:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fuzzypup

welk has been a tremendous help in improving the game interface and spotting small bugs.


And you can be certain that the Munich warplan beta conference will continue : I am a very hard negociator, when I want my Sudetenlands in graphs, modding, interface, I have my sudetenlands [:D]



ncc1701e -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 8:24:03 PM)

In the above screenshot, "Morale = Endless" meaning that they will never surrender?



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 8:27:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

In the above screenshot, "Morale = Endless" meaning that they will never surrender?


yes



Fred98 -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/14/2019 11:15:15 PM)

So, what is the ending date for each of the scenarios?




wodin -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 12:03:18 AM)

Welk isn't doing a great job in getting people interested😉 His France statement and now play in a day post seemed to have back fired, having the reverse effect in what he was wanting. Feel sorry for him, bet developer is saying " please for God sake so nothing else" hehe. Now he mentions a Munich Conference!! Christ mate say no more!


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

The statement above that the '39 campaign scenario could be played in one day (150+ turns) is the first thing I've heard about the game that gives me pause. For that to be true, the game has to VERY shallow.






welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 5:02:17 AM)

Stop whining and play, you'll see: it'll be better immediately[:'(]



Meteor2 -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 6:58:51 AM)

Moral = Endless = They will never surrender.

That seems to be strange for me. The mechanics in SC3 with the Moral bar at the top, influenced by events and decisions, is possibly a better solution.
Maybe it should not be visible for the enemy faction, but the concept is reasonable.

And why should a country never surrender?



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 7:05:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

Moral = Endless = They will never surrender.

That seems to be strange for me. The mechanics in SC3 with the Moral bar at the top, influenced by events and decisions, is possibly a better solution.
Maybe it should not be visible for the enemy faction, but the concept is reasonable.

And why should a country never surrender?


I have seen that it may be changed in editor
i.e : in vanilla 1929 scenario, France is not a "endless" country. But in editor, you may set France as "endless" country (and at the reverse, you may set a surrender level to the countries that are in vanilla "endless"


Editor is a very detailled tool, that allows players to customize the game as they want. Need to wait the final release to work with for complete works, because perhaps dev will do change before final release (+ some little bugs to erase), but I began to try it and it's a very powerfull tool

[image]local://upfiles/22329/5BAAFEA53CCD44F7BDCE257A2BB8DE73.jpg[/image]



Meteor2 -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 7:55:49 AM)

So it was only a try in the Editor, which you showed?
In the "normal" settings I would expect a certain number for every country, of course.



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 8:11:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

So it was only a try in the Editor, which you showed?
In the "normal" settings I would expect a certain number for every country, of course.



You mean Czecoslovakia and Austria ?

Yed, just a training to see how things may be made. I will do a complete work only after final release, whent all things will be stabilized (during beta, some things may be changed in game and editor)

With editor, we will be able to set a great number of parameters, and settings are for each individual country : you may calibrate major and minors as you want for all matters (economy, military stats units, diplomacy, etc)




Michael T -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 8:45:12 AM)

Having people change things willy nilly for their own games v the AI may be a good thing. But for PBEM games and making sensible comparisons of performance against historical events it is very important that the stock scenario's are close to balanced and 'official' updates improve any issues. I for one don't wish to see a plethora of PBEM games being played all with different settings. So I really hope the designer is putting in great efforts for the stock games to be the most historical and balanced versions he can make.



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 9:19:08 AM)

It's difficult to content all players :
If he does not build editor for the game, some players say : "oh, no editor in this game ? What a bad thing"
Ih he does, other players say : "Oh, I play multi, I don't need editor"

I think the dev has intention to work in the 2 directions : good scenarios for multi and detailled/complete editor for players who want change vanilla parameters




Zovs -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 11:56:00 AM)

Well I think your missing the point. It’s one thing to be able to create mods and modify things but for competitive pbem once a game has started between two players all those variables should be locked down with no way to change the agreed upon options. All war games usually have this feature.

Also all the stock scenarios should be play tested and set for both historical accuracy and play balance.

Setting the French to never surrender would be as ludicrous as setting all the Germans to fantasy SS elite units.



lecrop -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 12:04:31 PM)

But somewhere have they said that you can change the parameters of a scenario unilaterally once you have started a pbem game?

I have not read that in any post...



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 12:13:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well I think your missing the point. It’s one thing to be able to create mods and modify things but for competitive pbem once a game has started between two players all those variables should be locked down with no way to change the agreed upon options. All war games usually have this feature.

Also all the stock scenarios should be play tested and set for both historical accuracy and play balance.

Setting the French to never surrender would be as ludicrous as setting all the Germans to fantasy SS elite units.



I don't play wargames to win games as "competition", it seems to me a "no sense" and to win or to lost has for me no any importance if I did enjoy with strategic questions during game (during my wargamer carreer, I did always avoid to play with this kind of players because they are always a litle bit pernickety and to play with them seems to me tedious). But I see what you means f for this matter I think WP will probably come like other computer wargames, with a "no cheat" multi system (each player must use the same settings)



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 12:16:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lecrop

But somewhere have they said that you can change the parameters of a scenario unilaterally once you have started a pbem game?

I have not read that in any post...


I agree, and I think the game will not allow that sort of "multi- cheat"

Besides, what is the point of cheating in a wargame? Players has to be heavely stupid to do that. When I say that modifications in editor may be interessant, it's to create strategic what if ? (what happen,s if France do not surrender ? What happens if surrending level of Italy is less than the vanilla setting ?, etc)



wosung -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 1:00:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

And why should a country never surrender?


Should the Soviet Union surrender?



welk -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 1:30:16 PM)

In editor, you may create a what if ? What would be happens with a different german politic concerning Russian peoples (in particular in Ukrainia), and if Germans had favorized independant and/or anti soviet movements ? In this case, you may set a "break moral point" to URSS, considering that when this point is reached, the soviet regime collapses and Urss surrenders, with installation of "German satellites regimes" in Moscow and Kiev



Meteor2 -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 5:37:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Having people change things willy nilly for their own games v the AI may be a good thing. But for PBEM games and making sensible comparisons of performance against historical events it is very important that the stock scenario's are close to balanced and 'official' updates improve any issues. I for one don't wish to see a plethora of PBEM games being played all with different settings. So I really hope the designer is putting in great efforts for the stock games to be the most historical and balanced versions he can make.


Right!
The original scenarios / campaigns should be as "accurate" and historical as possible.
And yes, every Country should have a certain Moral level for surrender.
And, by the way, is surrender a Black/white decision (as in nearly every WW2 sim), or is a negotiated peace possible?
E. g. Italy leaving the axis in 1943 due to heavy losses in Russia and the loss of the colonies in NA.



76mm -> RE: Cappaigns and scenarios? (6/15/2019 5:47:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung
Should the Soviet Union surrender?

This is an excellent question and very relevant for wargames like this.

While I for one doubt--with the benefit of hindsight--that the USSR would have surrendered under almost any circumstances, many at the time (certainly the Germans) seem to believe otherwise.

Since this belief inevitably affected their strategies, etc. it would seem odd to have a WWII game in which there is no chance that the USSR will surrender.



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