i wish there was a fear mechanic (Full Version)

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Vectrexplosion -> i wish there was a fear mechanic (6/13/2019 1:53:23 AM)

I was playing sandbox mode with amended settings so it would be very easy. (10,000,000 firepower and 165 colonies by 2167.) I thought, "Stop complaining about my ships escorting a freighter in one of your systems". Keep, in mind I just blew up 2 planets in the Gizurean Hive. I thinm the game would be better with a fear mechanic where empires are too scared to speak up about ships trespassing in their systems due to a big fleet, or just destroying an empire or planet.

What are your thoughts?



U235 -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/5/2019 1:00:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vectrexplosion

I was playing sandbox mode with amended settings so it would be very easy. (10,000,000 firepower and 165 colonies by 2167.) I thought, "Stop complaining about my ships escorting a freighter in one of your systems". Keep, in mind I just blew up 2 planets in the Gizurean Hive. I thinm the game would be better with a fear mechanic where empires are too scared to speak up about ships trespassing in their systems due to a big fleet, or just destroying an empire or planet.

What are your thoughts?


Hum, a fear mechanic. No, I'm afraid not.[:D]



Lucian -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/6/2019 5:02:39 AM)

If you mean that weak empires should have a healthy respect for vastly superior empires squashing them like bugs if they get out of line then yes I agree. The whole idea of some tiny, pathetic little nation hating you just because you're big is silly, logically those empires should really do everything in their power to not rock the boat, pander to, and ingratiate themselves with superpowers, just like they do in the real world, forming factions and power blocs centered on the few powerful nations.

Of course how difficult that would be to code is anyone's guess, pretty difficult I imagine since no other 4x that I know of even comes close to doing diplomatic interactions like that. Its a lot easier just to code "if empire X is much bigger then set hatred to high" which sadly is what DW does.



ElanaAhova_slith -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/18/2019 6:48:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

If you mean that weak empires should have a healthy respect for vastly superior empires squashing them like bugs if they get out of line then yes I agree. The whole idea of some tiny, pathetic little nation hating you just because you're big is silly, logically those empires should really do everything in their power to not rock the boat, pander to, and ingratiate themselves with superpowers, just like they do in the real world, forming factions and power blocs centered on the few powerful nations.

Of course how difficult that would be to code is anyone's guess, pretty difficult I imagine since no other 4x that I know of even comes close to doing diplomatic interactions like that. Its a lot easier just to code "if empire X is much bigger then set hatred to high" which sadly is what DW does.


Seems they could just reverse the code. "If empire x is much bigger then empire y, then set hatred to low."



Lucian -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/19/2019 12:44:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanaAhova_slith


Seems they could just reverse the code. "If empire x is much bigger then empire y, then set hatred to low."



Sort of.... But it would be a pretty delicate balancing act. You would want hatred to escalate sharply as long as the other empire thinks it has any chance at all of winning a fight. Or winning a fight in an existing alliance with other smaller nations.

But when the power disparity grows beyond a certain point, it would suddenly reverse and rapidly become positive again as the other empire decides that it has absolutely zero chance of winning a fight and instead adopts a policy of pandering and cooperation to ensure its own survival against a superpower that could effortlessly crush it.

It would take some serious game-balancing time and constant minute tweaking to get those tipping points exactly right, but it should be doable in principle.



Bingeling -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/19/2019 8:13:47 PM)

In my mind, the game already has a fear mechanic. They will hate you just as much, but if you are stronger they won't dare to attack you. Unless you are at war with 4 other empires first.

I do not think being feared makes you become less hated. But the others may not dare to express their true feelings. The game has the different scores and opinions in plain text in the diplomacy screen, so no hidden feelings there.




Lucian -> RE: i wish there was a fear mechanic (7/20/2019 1:38:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

In my mind, the game already has a fear mechanic. They will hate you just as much, but if you are stronger they won't dare to attack you. Unless you are at war with 4 other empires first.

I do not think being feared makes you become less hated. But the others may not dare to express their true feelings. The game has the different scores and opinions in plain text in the diplomacy screen, so no hidden feelings there.




Yes, I know DW works that way, but the problem is that the way it works is not the way that tiny, insignificant nations generally behave when geographically close to overwhelmingly powerful superpowers.

Insignificant nations tend to pander to and cooperate with superpowers - whether they like them or not - to gain at least some semblance of relevance and influence by proxy. This results in geographic power blocs forming around superpowers and their nearby powerless / less-powerful neighbors. Not always, but its the general trend and the best outcome for a tiny nation with no hope at all of resistance or relevance alone.

That's what I thought the op was talking about and we pretty much never see that kind of diplomatic logic in strategy games, probably because its pretty complex behavior and not the easiest thing to code. Instead we end up with a whole bunch of insignificant nations sitting on our borders who hate our guts - only because we're big - and wont interact with us in any way despite the fact that THEY suffer far worse from the lack of interaction than we do.



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