Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (Full Version)

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AllenK -> Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/15/2019 7:31:39 PM)

It seems SNAFUCOM-PAC is back in business.

I responded to BillBrown's offer of a game and he graciously accepted.

I'm playing the Allies in a Scen 2 game. Stock map and stacking limits.

No house rules. Turn one restrictions

1. Allied TF that exist on turn one can change their orders, no new TFs can be created
2. Only ground and air units either in China or attached to China Command can be given orders on turn 1.
3. No deep penetrations by the Japanese( No Mersing turn 1, no Palambang, etc. )

Realistic R&D, PDU on, historic Allied damage control and torps. 1 day turns, fixed reinforcements, unit withdrawals on.

Help and advice will be greatly appreciated as events unfold. Now awaiting turn one (which may be a few days).



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/15/2019 9:39:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

It seems SNAFUCOM-PAC is back in business.

I responded to BillBrown's offer of a game and he graciously accepted.

I'm playing the Allies in a Scen 2 game. Stock map and stacking limits.

No house rules. Turn one restrictions

1. Allied TF that exist on turn one can change their orders, no new TFs can be created
2. Only ground and air units either in China or attached to China Command can be given orders on turn 1.
3. No deep penetrations by the Japanese( No Mersing turn 1, no Palambang, etc. )

Realistic R&D, PDU on, historic Allied damage control and torps. 1 day turns, fixed reinforcements, unit withdrawals on.

Help and advice will be greatly appreciated as events unfold. Now awaiting turn one (which may be a few days).

Whatever you do, don't mention the war. [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/34241/B76F15CC2D6C4938A1B5ECE6837C53A0.gif[/image]



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/16/2019 10:41:41 AM)

What war?

Oh, you mean that contretemps in Europe. All’s quiet and peaceful here in the Pacific.



zuluhour -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/16/2019 12:20:46 PM)

Early game considerations:
Set all commonwealth units to no upgrade
stockpile all commonwealth devices
*You will want tanks at some point, where you want them.
*With the exception of Indian infantry squads, you will also want to conserve until you decide on where they should go.
*IJN subs will not be off the west coast for several days, begin resupply and fuel to Allied ports and bases, even single ship deliveries will be welcome.
*Decide now where the Commonwealth reinforcements at sea will go, hesitation is not good on this point.
*PAY ATTENTION to China. A successful holding action will go a long way. I violate this rule of thumb every game and hate myself for it.
* You know where the KB is, do something positive with your carriers. IMO this is one of the best times for risk on them.
2 cents.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/16/2019 1:00:09 PM)

Thanks zuluhour, useful reminders.

I think the CW forces at sea (plus any part divisions already ashore) will probably go to India for added security there and to await further developments. They'll certainly be diverted from their current missions to Singapore and Rangoon. From what I understand, Calcutta can be isolated if the Japanese player goes for it, so it'll be Indian forces to hold out there as best as possible. I won't initially commit the CW 18th Div there.

Will have to see what Bill does on his opening turn before deciding what to do with the Allied CV's. It's a non-historic start which would certainly open up some possibilities if he opts for a strike somewhere other than Pearl.



BBfanboy -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/16/2019 4:05:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Thanks zuluhour, useful reminders.

I think the CW forces at sea (plus any part divisions already ashore) will probably go to India for added security there and to await further developments. They'll certainly be diverted from their current missions to Singapore and Rangoon. From what I understand, Calcutta can be isolated if the Japanese player goes for it, so it'll be Indian forces to hold out there as best as possible. I won't initially commit the CW 18th Div there.

Will have to see what Bill does on his opening turn before deciding what to do with the Allied CV's. It's a non-historic start which would certainly open up some possibilities if he opts for a strike somewhere other than Pearl.


Based on the most successful IJ assaults on India that I have seen:
- Bombay and Karachi should be your last chance redoubts. Reinforcements from Aden need somewhere close to land and unload quickly.
- Put at least a regiment on Diego Garcia so he cannot grab it on the cheap. In IJ hands it can be a real thorn in your side when trying to bring stuff and troops in from Capetown because his Mavis/Emily search can cover such a huge area.
- Ceylon is a trap until fall of 1942 when the Allies have enough troops/ships/aircraft to defend it. Move what you can up to Bombay initially, move back when it is too late for him to hold it.
- Withdraw the Addu BF to Karachi- it can grow to a very strong BF with something like 150 NS.
- Hurricanes are good fighters against early IJ fighters. Some players use Hurricanes at high altitude and Spitfires at medium altitude (around 15K feet). The Hurricanes retain their maneuverability at altitude better than Spits.
- If he does invade India via the usual Calcutta corridor, you can draw him into a massive tar-baby by setting speed bumps at each base but keeping your strongest punch ready to move on any weak points in his attack.

- I consider Northern Australia a wasteland for the IJ. They get a small amount of recon value and might try to bomb industry further south, but your fighters can make this too costly. Don't defend N. Oz early - wait until you have air and sea control and can land up there to trap his troops.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/16/2019 4:09:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Thanks zuluhour, useful reminders.

I think the CW forces at sea (plus any part divisions already ashore) will probably go to India for added security there and to await further developments. They'll certainly be diverted from their current missions to Singapore and Rangoon. From what I understand, Calcutta can be isolated if the Japanese player goes for it, so it'll be Indian forces to hold out there as best as possible. I won't initially commit the CW 18th Div there.

Will have to see what Bill does on his opening turn before deciding what to do with the Allied CV's. It's a non-historic start which would certainly open up some possibilities if he opts for a strike somewhere other than Pearl.


Based on the most successful IJ assaults on India that I have seen:
- Bombay and Karachi should be your last chance redoubts. Reinforcements from Aden need somewhere close to land and unload quickly.
- Put at least a regiment on Diego Garcia so he cannot grab it on the cheap. In IJ hands it can be a real thorn in your side when trying to bring stuff and troops in from Capetown because his Mavis/Emily search can cover such a huge area.
- Ceylon is a trap until fall of 1942 when the Allies have enough troops/ships/aircraft to defend it. Move what you can up to Bombay initially, move back when it is too late for him to hold it.
- Withdraw the Addu BF to Karachi- it can grow to a very strong BF with something like 150 NS.
- Hurricanes are good fighters against early IJ fighters. Some players use Hurricanes at high altitude and Spitfires at medium altitude (around 15K feet). The Hurricanes retain their maneuverability at altitude better than Spits.
- If he does invade India via the usual Calcutta corridor, you can draw him into a massive tar-baby by setting speed bumps at each base but keeping your strongest punch ready to move on any weak points in his attack.

- I consider Northern Australia a wasteland for the IJ. They get a small amount of recon value and might try to bomb industry further south, but your fighters can make this too costly. Don't defend N. Oz early - wait until you have air and sea control and can land up there to trap his troops.


Thanks BB, makes sense to me.



Lawless1 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/17/2019 2:47:41 AM)

There are many ships that can be converted, early in the war. Clemson and Wick class can be converted to APD, with an ASW rate of six.

Excellent thread on conversions can be found here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4227974&mpage=1&key=�




AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/17/2019 2:54:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lawless1

There are many ships that can be converted, early in the war. Clemson and Wick class can be converted to APD, with an ASW rate of six.

Excellent thread on conversions can be found here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4227974&mpage=1&key=�




Thanks.

Interesting discussion with support for just about every permutation of converting DD's to APD's/DE's and the potential AG conversions.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/19/2019 9:38:56 PM)

Okay, first turn back to Bill.

In keeping with the first turn HR's and to start the Allies on a historical footing, Force Z (which should not have been at sea in the first place) and a CL are disbanded back to Singapore. Other Allied TF's at sea are left to continue as ordered on the basis that until the Japanese attack there would have been no reason to change the existing orders.

Many Chinese land and air units are on the move to new defensive positions.



Bif1961 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/20/2019 2:49:55 PM)

Good luck, fair winds and trailing seas.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/20/2019 7:26:44 PM)

SNAFUCOM-PAC
07/12/41.

I think you sort of get an inkling how events are going to transpire when the opposition opens the bowling with a deadly short-pitched throat ball.

Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-14, hits 2

Allied Ships
BB California, Torpedo hits 1
PC Taney

Frozen in the crease, the Allies take hit after hit and wickets tumble.

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 107 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 103
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 135

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 8 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 18 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 56 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 10 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 21 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 106 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 7 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 21 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 41 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 2 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 9 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 20 damaged
C-33: 1 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 29 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 6 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Alchiba, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Torpedo hits 1
DD Worden, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Curtiss, Torpedo hits 1
BB California, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 1
CL Detroit, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Phoenix, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Cummings, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
PT-42, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk - I'd love to have been at this crew's debrief. "Honest, we had the Nevada square in our sights but it appeared from nowhere, just after we released".
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1
AS Pelias, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
DD Cassin, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Elsewhere, in the Philippines Clarke and Manilla take heavy hits to the bases and aircraft. Davao is hit by carrier aircraft, damaging an AVD. The damage is a pain but at least it gives me the heads up to the CV/CVL presence.

In Malaya a similar story for Georgetown, Kuantan and Alor Star. An attack on Rangoon damages shipping as well as airfields and aircraft. Other air raids on Guam, Hong Kong and in China. Wake is bombarded by destroyers. The Japanese lose quite a lot of troops while disembarking at Kota Bharu, although the preliminary bombardment caused 176 Allied casualties.

TF 91 troops unloading over beach at Kota Bharu, 51,75

Japanese ground losses:
343 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

89th Chinese Corps is forced to retreat with heavy losses at Pengpu. I probably shouldn't have put them in move mode.

The Allied counter ... 4 Hudsons that got lost and a mixed strike of 4 Hudsons and 4 Blenheims that was shot down before reaching target.

Initial impression. Bill appreciates the value of going big on a few targets, rather than massed penny-packet attacks.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/20/2019 9:08:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

SNAFUCOM-PAC
07/12/41.


Why can't you English learn to format dates properly?

[image]local://upfiles/34241/9C7E7E9AE3CA4A14BA8630786686850B.gif[/image]



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/20/2019 9:23:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

SNAFUCOM-PAC
07/12/41.


Why can't you English learn to format dates properly?

[image]local://upfiles/34241/9C7E7E9AE3CA4A14BA8630786686850B.gif[/image]


My dear fellow,

I believe time and therefore date is set with reference to Greenwich Mean Time. That being the case, with Greenwich mostly distinctly located in England, it logically follows that the English date format is the correct and proper one to use. One must maintain standards.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/20/2019 9:49:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

SNAFUCOM-PAC
07/12/41.


Why can't you English learn to format dates properly?

[image]local://upfiles/34241/9C7E7E9AE3CA4A14BA8630786686850B.gif[/image]


My dear fellow,

I believe time and therefore date is set with reference to Greenwich Mean Time. That being the case, with Greenwich mostly distinctly located in England, it logically follows that the English date format is the correct and proper one to use. One must maintain standards.

Logic smogic!

[image]local://upfiles/34241/E8FE16F7AF764EC28FA9C0379EFEC920.gif[/image]



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 5:43:34 AM)

Yes indeed Zorch, you must try and understand.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 4:47:40 PM)

KB launched from the hex NE of Lihue.

Nasty's in bound to Malaya. The other TF is 2 BB's plus 3 but they are apparently heading SE.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/77EE20221A9A4ABEB6D515F070FA9C34.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 5:00:03 PM)

Hey AllenK if you want some proper advice, then you'd do a lot worse than this.

As soon as the Grand Old Lady gets out of Bremerton, head her to Tokyo Bay, kick the crap out of the IJN (I suspect you can account for circa 50% of their CV/BB force) and then head back to the UK for tea and medals.

I trust that is of assistance old boy?



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 5:58:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hey AllenK if you want some proper advice, then you'd do a lot worse than this.

As soon as the Grand Old Lady gets out of Bremerton, head her to Tokyo Bay, kick the crap out of the IJN (I suspect you can account for circa 50% of their CV/BB force) and then head back to the UK for tea and medals.

I trust that is of assistance old boy?


Brilliant. Can't fail.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 9:47:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hey AllenK if you want some proper advice, then you'd do a lot worse than this.

As soon as the Grand Old Lady gets out of Bremerton, head her to Tokyo Bay, kick the crap out of the IJN (I suspect you can account for circa 50% of their CV/BB force) and then head back to the UK for tea and medals.

I trust that is of assistance old boy?


Brilliant. Can't fail.

[&o]
How many VPs is Warspite worth?



Anachro -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/21/2019 9:57:59 PM)

Inestimable.



warspite1 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/22/2019 11:50:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hey AllenK if you want some proper advice, then you'd do a lot worse than this.

As soon as the Grand Old Lady gets out of Bremerton, head her to Tokyo Bay, kick the crap out of the IJN (I suspect you can account for circa 50% of their CV/BB force) and then head back to the UK for tea and medals.

I trust that is of assistance old boy?


Brilliant. Can't fail.

[&o]
How many VPs is Warspite worth?
warspite1

The game makers did not give her a VP number on the basis that sinking her is totally and utterly impossible and if anyone claims to have sunk her then they are lying, so there.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/22/2019 12:00:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hey AllenK if you want some proper advice, then you'd do a lot worse than this.

As soon as the Grand Old Lady gets out of Bremerton, head her to Tokyo Bay, kick the crap out of the IJN (I suspect you can account for circa 50% of their CV/BB force) and then head back to the UK for tea and medals.

I trust that is of assistance old boy?


Brilliant. Can't fail.

[&o]
How many VPs is Warspite worth?
warspite1

The game makers did not give her a VP number on the basis that sinking her is totally and utterly impossible and if anyone claims to have sunk her then they are lying, so there.


None the less, Warspite can be damaged!

[image]local://upfiles/34241/4FCBF2EB5CC54757A3B739E8D500947D.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/22/2019 12:21:30 PM)

Indeed she can: mines, shells, glider bombs you name it she can take it, dusts herself down, and gets on with the job.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/22/2019 5:00:55 PM)

It's too bad Berlin isn't closer to the coast; Warspite could've lobbed 15" shells at it and forced an early German surrender.



AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/24/2019 9:31:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

It's too bad Berlin isn't closer to the coast; Warspite could've lobbed 15" shells at it and forced an early German surrender.


Judging by the state of the US BB fleet, Warspite will be needed as much as possible in the Pacific.

Allied first turn is done and away. Game on.



Zorch -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/24/2019 10:56:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

It's too bad Berlin isn't closer to the coast; Warspite could've lobbed 15" shells at it and forced an early German surrender.


Judging by the state of the US BB fleet, Warspite will be needed as much as possible in the Pacific.

Allied first turn is done and away. Game on.



[image]local://upfiles/34241/A402F48BA49546E69BB9156915C39A47.gif[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/25/2019 6:04:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Allied first turn is done and away. Game on.
warspite1

Any things you care to share (especially pictures) to highlight what action you've taken this turn. What are the key things you've had to do?

I know its a bit of work to do but if you have the time it would be great to aid understanding and help follow what is going on.

Thanks




AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/26/2019 12:55:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Allied first turn is done and away. Game on.
warspite1

Any things you care to share (especially pictures) to highlight what action you've taken this turn. What are the key things you've had to do?

I know its a bit of work to do but if you have the time it would be great to aid understanding and help follow what is going on.

Thanks




Most of it is starting the process of getting all the Allied shipping ordered and prepping Allied units for their initial dispositions in South PAC - Noumeas, Luganville, Pago Pago. Elsewhere it's trying to get stuff out of harm's way. Force Z (less a couple of DD's detached for escort duty) met up with the two CL's from Palembang and tried to hide in storms around Singkep. I might commit them to a run up to Mersing if the nasties inbound head there. I'm chancing a convoy to Kuching to pick up troops from that base.

In China, forces are on the move to concentrate in some key defensive positions. I've tried to follow the guidance given by Alfred.

In the Philippines, concentrating forces around Manilla and Clarke.

In Malaya, trying to get 11th Indian reformed at Singapore and 9th Indian reformed at Temuloh. The latter isn't ideal but is the closest base to 8th Indian Brigade, which starts at Kota Bharu and will likely be booted out shortly.




AllenK -> RE: Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown (6/26/2019 1:05:34 PM)

SNAFUCOM-PAC
09/12/41

Reports come in of a stunning Japanese naval victory with many Allied CV's and BB's sunk. Consternation turns to relief when a check of the dispatches shows the location to be Hong Kong.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 75,66, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Natori
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Harukaze
DD Hatakaze

Allied Ships
DD Scout
DD Thanet
DD Thracian, Shell hits 3, on fire.

However, the same Jap TF bumps into fleeing merchant TF's and sinks 6.

Big air raids on Manilla, Rangoon, George Town and Alor Starr. Lesser raids in Davao and China. The KB sweeps Pearl Harbour with 78 Zero's. The Allies knock a few down but the raids get through causing further damage to the bases and aircraft on the ground. Overall the Japanese come out on top.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/AA90360F48F34967B06760B7737DD2D9.jpg[/image]



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