RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (Full Version)

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Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 6:54:50 PM)

Cleanup goes quick and there is not much left in the pocket. A few airborne brigades are sent rushing forward to try to suck up MPs, but I will gladly encircle them and eat them up next turn. If I am correct these units will never respawn and thus for each of them I kill I will limit his abilities to do any paradrops later in the war. Panzers also reach the landbridge and some infantry are right behind. My opponent is quite heavily defending the Dnepr but I only plan to send screening forces to this location and further north of the landbridge there is almost no resistance so I send part of my panzer forces this way to flip hexes here aswell. If it continues to stay undefended the landbrigde defense will fall with a breeze.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/BC21DF0B26864181BEB6926899CF88DA.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 7:08:04 PM)

All pockets held in AGS. For me it is very important to clear the pockets closest to the front immediately so that I dont have to keep units garrisoning them over the next turn. In many cases it also will help supply flow better and reduces a chance of any soviet units escaping or opening the pockets. Marked in red are offensive plans. I see an easy oppertunity to encirle a couple rifle divisions on the outskirts of Kiev and go for it. The flipped hexes will also help infantry get to the Dnepr quicker. I used a lot of recon on Odessa and was not able to find any units there, so I go for a gamble with a panzer corps sending them south. Also one thing to note is he is doing the same here as in the center where he is sacirfizing airborne brigades.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/1FEA65CBB1004234B4D05B8DA46820B2.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 7:10:40 PM)

My mobile forces are at the gates of Kiev and they create a loose pocket

[image]local://upfiles/60613/2FBC92E08FA94F0F9C4D91A3AB10B34E.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 7:15:10 PM)

My gambit paid of as Odessa was only garrisoned by the Odessa fortress. Another few divisions are cut off and will soon join their comrades. The most important part of this capture is that I can avoid a more lengthy siege of the city and thus I will hopefully have more time to deal with sevastopol which will be one of my main goals in the South.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/EAB7FC9DC6B84F3596C90E96AF4AC67E.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 7:16:43 PM)

Losses at the end of turn 3.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/437019BF2EC14010B3E1AC9AAF6550F8.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 7:17:26 PM)

And OOB

[image]local://upfiles/60613/E035E3F99B9F47ECADECA704AE4AAC1D.jpg[/image]



chegevara -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/5/2019 8:02:27 PM)

Very well with Odessa, I suppose industry had not a chanse to evacuate before turn 3, so it's lost.



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/27/2019 5:07:19 PM)

I had hoped to keep this AAR going for a long time, but unfortunatly that would not be the case.

My opponent surrendered to me on turn 13. This was about 2 weeks ago, he sent me a PM saying it he wanted to surrender, I tried to get in contact with him to convince him to keep the game going. But I never got any respons, and 1 week later he resigned. (no way back as it was a server game) It seems my never ending quest to play this game past turn 13 will keep going for a while.

Anyways if anyone would like to see any screenshots from the game, just let me know and I will provide them in this thread.





EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/27/2019 6:12:11 PM)

quote:

It seems my never ending quest to play this game past turn 13 will keep going for a while.


Consider becoming a worse player :D



mrblonde1 -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/27/2019 7:20:38 PM)

Last turn screenshots could be interesting, was it so bad for soviets?



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 3:38:44 PM)

I will post some screenshots from turn 13. Quick comment on the game up to that point. I was never able to achieve any major pockets other than the starting ones. My opponent was very good at pulling back when he needed to and I wasted a lot of HQBU's in this game. But I would make pockets every turn, but they would be small and spread out in different places on the front.

The strategy of my opponent was to stack the Leningrad defense which started at the Luga river. I arrived there at turn 4, but I dont think I crossed it until around turn 10. My opponent would also when abandoning defensive lines always leave atleast 1 unit in cities or urban hexes, which was easy gains for my infantry. In some cases it was good for him, but most cases I would love to kill more counters. His stacked Leningrad defense took most of his units from the South so it was lightly defended and I made big gains here. Most of his defense would end up being in front of Leningrad and Moscow which made the progress slow here. At the cost of this concentrated defense, I crossed the Dnepr uncontested north of prypiat marshes. In the Area between Gomel, Kursk and Tula (russian steppes?) was almost complety undefended, so I sent 2 infantry corps to clean up the area and they only met rare resistance which was mostly in the cities. (free encirlements)

I had little experience with the central battle and the battle for Moscow, but my plan in general was to encircle as many units as possible and hopefully grab Moscow in time. This is also where I sent all my reinforments after turn 2.

My opponent made a blunder in Leningrad, where he built forts to late so the Finns were able to capture Osinovets. Considering this and the stacked Luga defense I decided to head east of Lake Ilmen to try to capture as many of the defenders as possible.

Following will be pictures of the entire front. I did not take a front wide picture, but I will post smaller pictures that will in total cover the entire front.



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 3:41:40 PM)

Sevastopol will fall before winter, the german corps was lead by Model and they had every siege gun in the Wehrmacht.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/32145A226DC44470ADE5E9C53595D519.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 3:44:34 PM)

Stalino area falls this turn, and Rostov looks possible unless it gets reinforcements ASAP. As you can tell there are barely any defenders left in the South.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/596DD615B867474F9E0479E217D47E52.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 3:46:03 PM)

Voronezh also looks like a grab. It is the only place in the South where he still has a good defense.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/7FC94A7A681F48368A9C3543121D8EA7.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 3:54:49 PM)

The battle around Tula is quite intense as I have not had a lot of forces in the area, and I think he would have broken this pocket had we played on. The Panzer corps fighting there has been throught the Ukraine, went to Kharkov and they are now fighting near Tula and would soon join the battle for Moscow. Must be quite a story to tell for these soldiers[:D]. Also note that AGS stretches from Orel all the way down to the Black Sea.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/ED5CADD0BE584B17A1EE3FECD430B3F3.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:01:36 PM)

The battle of Moscow presented me with two oppertunities to make big pockets. The one right west of Moscow is a pocket that I missed 1 hex from creating last turn, but with infantry closer and panzers still having fuel it would be shut for good this time. The second objective was for 1 of the panzer corps to head North, then West to encirle units near Rzhev. This operation was only going to be done if I did not have to use them to create the previous pocket.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/D43E75CECAE64316ADF881DED85CED4A.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:07:02 PM)

The results are as I hoped for. Finaly I was able to make a big pocket other than the ones from turn 1. Both pockets are created. The central one is sealed tight and the russian units inside will never escape. 17 divisions are gone infront of Moscow. The secondary objective was achieved, but the russians will break the pocket for atleast 1 turn. 14 divisions in this one.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/DB7B04CD400C4EF3B11E366CED868B9D.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:15:46 PM)

The last few turns I had been closing in on Leningrad. My opponent still kept a big force west of my flanking push and he had several turns where he could have pulled most of them out. My plan was very straight forward. I wanted to push to lake Ladoga, which would cut off all the units in the Leningrad area. Marked in red was the key hex. I also wanted to make a wider corridor incase I would not make it there this turn. With a wider corrider almost no units would be able to escape.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/35082C387995414C96866C01D3B11EC3.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:16:41 PM)

Nice pockets!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetterkrolle
Also note that AGS stretches from Orel all the way down to the Black Sea.


If you are going for Moscow I even recomend trying to make the Oka the boundary between AGS and AGC.



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:21:55 PM)

@Telemecus

The push towards Tula made a big salient infront of Moscow that extends from his most western point near Vyazma, me being 4-5 hexes away from Moscow and the push on Tula on the Oka river. He would have to pull out so close to Vyazma in the next couple turns or I could see an easy way to make more pockets. He would loose most of his fortification in the area, but atleast increases the chance of him saving his army.

Sorry I am a bit to lazy to edit a picture, but I am sure a player of your calibre can understand what I am trying to point out here[;)]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:25:25 PM)

The operation was successful! Leningrad and units in it are cut off. A lot of units were routed out of the pocket, I think it was close to 8. This happend while I was makeing a bigger corridor. But still in the pocket there was atleast 30 divisions and 4 brigades. The final battle on the lake of Ladoga ended in a 2.01 - 1 win for me. Very close call, but it makes the pocket even more satysfing knowing the odds were so close.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/5C7148CE1ECA496086E84B18D0550140.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:29:20 PM)

OOB

[image]local://upfiles/60613/F42BB6F33D414638ACB915BB4BBABD28.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:33:26 PM)

Final losses. I think my AFV losses were a bit on the high end. and I could tell that the CV on my panzers were droping. The break in mud to refit would have been great for them as they had been fighting constantly since turn 1. So far he had 2,1 million irrecoverable losses. I am guessing this would jump up another 500-600k after clearing the pockets that was made this turn. Clearing them would take a few turns.

[image]local://upfiles/60613/BAC97FCA3C794CFEB081F3EBD6809F0F.jpg[/image]



MattFL -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:34:24 PM)

Yeah, this is pretty bad I think for Turn 13. His defenses are much too linear with no depth to them which leads to easy encirclements. It also seems that unless they are not visible from lack of recon, that he has very few units.

I think the OOB pretty much says it all. 3.5m men and 2.5m casualties on Turn 13 prior to the reduction of the massive pockets. Ouch. In my current game as Soviets on Turn 13 it was 4.5M men and 1.7M casualties. I can't even imagine having a million less men, would be impossible to defend anything.

One other point to note is that his fort levels are really low all along the front. Need to have level 2+ forts in depth before you can really try to stand and fight with the Germans.



Fetterkrolle -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:39:44 PM)

This is all for turn 13. It is obviously a bad situsation to be in for the soviets, and they are most likely loosing the game. Personaly I have never played past turn 13 so I would have been playing blind after this, compared to my opponent who has atleast two games in 43 and 44 I would say he has an edge with just pure gameplay experience.

After discusing with some other people and showing them what I have showed in this AAR, most people agree that the game was still playable. Some said play on and if you take Moscow call it. Others said we should play through the blizzard to give the soviet player a bit of fun.

Now I am wondering what you think. Do you think the game was still playable for soviets, atleast a few more turns? Or would you have called the game at this point? I would love to hear some more opinions on this!



MattFL -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 4:43:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetterkrolle

This is all for turn 13. It is obviously a bad situsation to be in for the soviets, and they are most likely loosing the game. Personaly I have never played past turn 13 so I would have been playing blind after this, compared to my opponent who has atleast two games in 43 and 44 I would say he has an edge with just pure gameplay experience.

After discusing with some other people and showing them what I have showed in this AAR, most people agree that the game was still playable. Some said play on and if you take Moscow call it. Others said we should play through the blizzard to give the soviet player a bit of fun.

Now I am wondering what you think. Do you think the game was still playable for soviets, atleast a few more turns? Or would you have called the game at this point? I would love to hear some more opinions on this!


The soviets can suffer quite a bit in terms of casualties and losses and still carry on. But this game is over given the pockets by Lenningrad and Moscow. If you think in terms of sudden death type VC's, it's very likely you will have Moscow, Lenningrad, Rostov, and Voronezh before blizzard. Plus, playing longer typically isn't going to change what's going on in the game, rather it would usually just get worse.



chaos45 -> RE: Fetterkrolle (Axis) VS Bear1888 (Soviets) Bitter End Scenario (8/28/2019 9:32:23 PM)

The soviet player looks to have been new to allow the finns to take the port...as a fort zone alone after one turn will block the fins or a low str BDE of some sort.

If you want to play longer than t13 need to probably tackle a soviet player that knows the game well as you seems to have a firm grasp of how to keep the panzers supplied and pushing which is the main thing the German player has to do in the early game.

Also I do concur with the Soviet players choice to surrender at this point the game is over for the Soviets. As you will have several more turns to keep assaulting and his position is basically shattered almost everywhere. From reading the upcoming patch notes I think we might see the Germans speed reduced alittle bit which is greatly needed for some balance in the early game.

Yes not all german players can keep supply going but this like many games so far in this patch edition shows just how fast the germans are when a skilled logistician uses them under the current patch rules.




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