V5.2 Infantry and rifles (Full Version)

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JimY -> V5.2 Infantry and rifles (6/24/2001 8:58:00 AM)

I am playing the Corregidor scenario with 5.2 and I notice that rifles are almost useless against infantry and in general infantry are very hard to kill except with artillery and machine guns. I lowered infantry toughness to 80% and artillery agaisnt soft targets to 80%. This made a little difference, but still infantry are tough, especially against rifles.



Slind -> (6/24/2001 6:51:00 PM)

I've noticed this too. My GE Riflesquad was firing at FR Riflesquad at range of 1 hex, the hit change was 99% and no-one got killed. And this has happened several times.



G. K. Zhukov -> (6/24/2001 8:47:00 PM)

Yesterday I spent all evening shooting at an Italian mortar crew point-blank and from the same hex with everything I had... They even self-rallied twice and destroyed two of my US M2/M3 halftracks in close assault! I had to let them go when their morale finally broke and they started retreating (after all, they weren't the main objective of the scenario). Hasn't the new version made infantry a little too resilient? :eek: :eek: :eek:



Flashfyre -> (6/24/2001 9:16:00 PM)

My German SS troops, in defense of Messina, were giving holy hell to the US airborne squads assaulting them. At ranges of one-two hexes, with moderate chances(30-50%), at least one casualty caused for each fire(rifle, lmg, grenade). Then 5.02 came along.....and now, with 98% chance to hit, I can't kill a single US trooper, even with a MG42! :eek: :mad: What did you guys do? I feel like I'm facing an entire regiment of Rambos.....and I'm using historical ratings! Going back to 5.01....



Paul Vebber -> (6/24/2001 10:05:00 PM)

If you are in the same hex why not melee? As with anytime when something gets fixed, there may be a readjustment period, The idea that rifle fire was the prime killer of troops before was something that needed to be fixed. The new version requires an adjustment in tactics to use rifle fire to pin troops down, spread your rifle fire around to get and keep troops pinned, and use MGs and mortars to kill them. Particularly in terrain with good cover. Now that said, there may be a need to adjust the default HE vs Inf and inf toughness settings - play with that and let us know what you think it should be. You will find Small arms are nearly useless at killing entrenched troops (which they were) but they will suppress them so you can assault and melee. Even troops in cover are tough. AS to % chance - remember for infantry that it is not the "% chance of killing an enemy" but the % "effective" the fire is, so 99% means only that you are nearly certain of having a result "diced for" but not certain of "a kill" [ June 24, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]



JimY -> (6/24/2001 10:29:00 PM)

I found that the Bar could kill the Japanese but not the 1903 Springfield. MG .30 caliber were equally ineffective as were 37 mm AA guns. However, the .50 caliber machine gun was very effective and artillery deadly. Turning down infantry toughness made the Japanese infantry too vulnerable to artillery and .50H2B MG. I went back to 5.01 increased infantry toughness to 120% and artillery v. soft targets to 130%. Now exposed infantry are vulnerable to rifles,etc., while infantry in cover are less vulnerable. Same for artillery and heavier weapons.



soldat31 -> (6/24/2001 11:32:00 PM)

I just got 5.2 and I am having similar results with almost total ineffectiveness with small arms. Not only rifles, but everything in the infantry's arsenal. I just played the tutorial scenario that deals with a Marine assault on a Jap. bunker. Taking out the bunker was not problem (flamethrower), but the Jap. infantry was nearly nearly unstoppable. I'm not talking about the units that were entrenched. I realize that they are going to be very tough to take out with only small arms. But one Jap. infantry squad came out into a clear hex that was directly next to two of my Marine squads. The Jap. squad was in the open with no cover and my troops were waiting for them in the next hex. The result? I spent an entire turn at 99% for every weapon (M1Carbine, BAR, hand grenade, etc.) for both squads (one was an engineer squad with a Flamethrower) and I didn't inflict a single casualty. That doesn't seem right. I shouldn't have to melee with a squad in an open hex when they are only one hex away and I'm spraying them with automatic and semi-automatic fire just to do more to add to their suppression. I hope that a patch will be issued to solve this problem.



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