Axis Su's (Full Version)

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Dubba -> Axis Su's (7/24/2019 9:40:45 PM)

Hi guys just wondering, it feels a little like a hack to send all your SU's to OKH and then be able to teleport them straight to the frontline and then also be able to use them on the same turn as being deployed to your Corps HQ for certain battles then have them magically transport back to the OKH in the next couple of turns to be re-assigned to anyware else they are needed.

Is this intended to be like this?



joelmar -> RE: Axis Su's (7/24/2019 9:57:12 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Dubba

Is this intended to be like this?


Intended? Of course, the game is designed that way. Maybe you meant "realistic"?

As for many other things, the game makes an abstraction. First, the upward flow takes a week per HQ level... so a unit in a corp with support level of 0 will be at his army HQ next week, and only available in this turn to that Army's corps... and next turn will be at Army Group (only available for the Army group's unit) and will only be at OKH 3 turns later, so it takes 3 weeks, which makes sense in a realistic way. And then when assigned back to a Corp, you can't use it in a hasty attack if the Corp HQ has moved in the turn. So there are restrictions in its use which somehow model the time it takes to bring it to the front.

And if you want to assign the SU from a corp to another mid level HQ using AP, you can't send it directly to another corp unless it is directly in the same army. So you still need to plan ahead to get the SU's you need where you need them, especially those that are less common and have the most effect on combat, like super heavy arty, flammpanzers or even pioneers. So I don't feel it as being unrealistic.



xhoel -> RE: Axis Su's (7/24/2019 10:38:15 PM)

It is intended but the SUs do not "magically" teleport. It is an abstraction the game makes, just like with many other things.

Let's walk through this: T1 you assign an Artillery Bn to your Corps HQ. Assuming all HQs in the chain are at 0 Support Level and the OKH is at 9, the Arty will be at the Army HQ on turn 2. Now assuming you don't assign that Artillery Bn to a Corps next turn (which happens rarely), that unit will move to Army Group HQ on turn 3. Again, certain Corps in the Army Group may get that Artillery Bn (but let's assume they don't). This leaves the OKH, the SU will reach it on turn 4. So that's almost a month for the SU to travel from the front to the OKH, which seems pretty ok to me. The OKH HQ acts as a general reserve for support units since it is the highest Headquarter, it does not represent a fixed geographical location.

I don't really see a problem with this, it is a mechanic that simplifies the move of SUs.

I have very rarely assigned a SU straight from the OKH, the fighting prevents you from doing so. Most of the time, my Army HQs and to an extent Army Gr. HQs are filled with SUs, the OKH itself only has certain SUs (StuGs and Panzerjager Bns that are there for R&R).

You could always use the lock feature and leave the SUs permanently assigned to a certain HQ. That makes you a lot less flexible though.



joelmar -> RE: Axis Su's (7/24/2019 11:13:51 PM)

Funny, we had almost identical parallel answers.

quote:


ORIGINAL: xhoel
You could always use the lock feature and leave the SUs permanently assigned to a certain HQ. That makes you a lot less flexible though.


Also it affects supply. So if you keep a lot of SU's in corps, they will impact the amount of supplies the corp receives, movement attrition of the SU's and also truck usage.



xhoel -> RE: Axis Su's (7/25/2019 12:34:02 AM)

Yeah it seems we did :D

True, the SUs will put a strain on the supply system. It affects you more when you are on the offensive and away from your lines though. In the defensive the effects are negligeble because you will be in good supply.



Dubba -> RE: Axis Su's (7/25/2019 5:32:46 AM)

What I was mainly implying is the ability to flood a whole corps in a turn with SU's to majorly increase combat effectivness anyware on the field.



Telemecus -> RE: Axis Su's (7/25/2019 10:03:12 AM)

There is a limit on the number of SUs that can be committed to any one battle - typically 6 per HQ. And even then how many SUs get committed depends on a rating check of your leader. So beyond a certain number adding more SUs to an HQ will not have much effect on combat at all.



Dubba -> RE: Axis Su's (7/26/2019 2:03:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

There is a limit on the number of SUs that can be committed to any one battle - typically 6 per HQ. And even then how many SUs get committed depends on a rating check of your leader. So beyond a certain number adding more SUs to an HQ will not have much effect on combat at all.


I understand that fully but when you have 3 corps Hq within 5 hexes they can all commit their support units if the rolls are good thus giving 18 SU's in one turn instantly if you attack with 3 different divisions from 3 different corps with 6 SU's each. And that massive show of CV can break just about anything.



Telemecus -> RE: Axis Su's (7/26/2019 2:18:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dubba


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

There is a limit on the number of SUs that can be committed to any one battle - typically 6 per HQ. And even then how many SUs get committed depends on a rating check of your leader. So beyond a certain number adding more SUs to an HQ will not have much effect on combat at all.


I understand that fully but when you have 3 corps Hq within 5 hexes they can all commit their support units if the rolls are good thus giving 18 SU's in one turn instantly if you attack with 3 different divisions from 3 different corps with 6 SU's each. And that massive show of CV can break just about anything.


The principle you have got is correct - and in certain circumstances can be used advantageously. However in general it is a bad idea to attack with units from multiple HQs as there is an automatic battle penalty on the divisions. Losing 10 or 20% CV of a division because it is in another HQ to get another 6 SUs at most is a worse trade off in general.



xhoel -> RE: Axis Su's (7/26/2019 2:53:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dubba

I understand that fully but when you have 3 corps Hq within 5 hexes they can all commit their support units if the rolls are good thus giving 18 SU's in one turn instantly if you attack with 3 different divisions from 3 different corps with 6 SU's each. And that massive show of CV can break just about anything.


If all the stars align and somehow you get every single SU in 3 Corps HQ to activate that will give you a boost in battle true, but having 3 different HQs in a battle will affect your CV since different HQs suffer a penalty. In most cases, 3 SUs activate per turn (rough average), but that depends on the commander. That being said I would never put 6 combat SUs in a single HQ, that simply means that you are overloading the HQ with units that most likely won't see battle. And keep in mind that SUs are not a "I win" button, your combat units need to have enough CV and strength to push the enemy back. SUs help but are not what will make or break an attack (at least in most cases).



Telemecus -> RE: Axis Su's (7/26/2019 3:11:28 PM)

There is a technique where you bring extra SUs to a battle by adding a dummy unit attached to it to the battle. The unit might be a Rumanian cavarly brigade or a security regiment with very little CV. So even if the CV penalty is -20% or more you do not care as it is a reduction on very little. In these cases having 6 SUs more, or even 3, could be worth more than the Cv penalty. But for any unit with serious CV, like a German infantry division, you would not want to penalise it.



Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: Axis Su's (7/31/2019 2:09:36 AM)

IIRC in WITW (and so similarly in WITE2 I guess) if you assign a support unit down into a corps HQ it won't fight until the next turn?



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