Bomb penetration ratings (Full Version)

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estaban -> Bomb penetration ratings (6/30/2003 2:07:33 AM)

I found these once before, but I can't seem to find them now.

What are the armor penetration ratings for the various allied and Japanese bombs used in the game? Anyone know?



dwesolick -> (6/30/2003 7:57:27 PM)

Try looking in Spooky's UV webpage (above, under FAQ). I'm not sure if it's there, but he's got just about all the info there is on UV.



denisonh -> (6/30/2003 10:23:54 PM)

And if they are not on Spooky's site, ask Nikademus.

He has sepent a great deal of time analysizing that subject in UV.



estaban -> (7/1/2003 12:03:27 AM)

I just finished checking Spooky's site, and it is not there. He has the bombs listed, but not the effect or penetration ratings for them

I actually have seen this penetration data before, you could get it from the ingame menus. Where it went, I have no idea, but I can't find it now. All I can think is that the info got pulled out somehow in one of the patches, but I have no idea how or why.



Nikademus -> (7/2/2003 1:27:50 AM)

Current Penetration ratings are as follows (Subject to change (i hope!) in WitP)

USA
100 LB GP bomb = 17mm
250 LB GP bomb = 45mm
500 LB GP bomb = 85mm
1000 LB GP bomb = 170mm
2000 LB GP bomb = 340mm

IJN

60 kg GP bomb = 22mm
100 kg AP* bomb= 55mm
250 kg AP* bomb= 140mm
800 kg AP bomb= 450mm

*- These bombs were not actually armor piercing bombs but were "semi" armor piercing bombs (SAP) As the name denotes they were a compromise between a true General Purpose (or "High Explosive") bomb and a dedicated "armor piercing" bomb and contained characteristics of both. As a result they would not be as effective in either catagory as a dedicated model but the pro is that you arn't restricted to one type of effect either.



Snigbert -> (7/2/2003 4:24:54 AM)

Nik, do you know if altitude has a modifier effect on the penetration ability of the bomb? Am I better off using my level bombers at higher altitude so gravity will have it's maximum benefit on the penetration?



Nikademus -> (7/2/2003 4:47:00 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]Nik, do you know if altitude has a modifier effect on the penetration ability of the bomb? Am I better off using my level bombers at higher altitude so gravity will have it's maximum benefit on the penetration? [/B][/QUOTE]

In real life? Most certainly. Non-powered bombs are totally dependant on gravity via altitude in order to achieve enough kinetic velocity to reach a certain or maximum penetration value.

Dive bombing partially compensates this of course by the plane going into a say 300kt dive. A real life example would be the Japanese level bomber attack on Pearl Harbor, the 800kg bombs were dropped from 10,000 feet so that they would achieve the theoretical necessary velocity to achieve the 170mm* of armor they were "rated" at (Per Cambell's, 10,000 feet was the altitude given for their rating as well......as were most American AP bombs)

A bomb dropped from 1000 feet, or say 100 feet, will have but a small fraction of this.

"Game Wise" there is no modifyer for altitude. Bombs penetrate the same amount of armor at 100 feet as they do at 30000 feet.

Keep in mind too that even at higher velocities, a "GP" bomb will still not have nearly any true AP capability vs an AP bomb due to the thickness of the bomb skin and the precense or lack of presense of a thick "Nose cap" strong enough to withstand both the kinetic impact with a solid object and/or the thickness/strength of hardened armor

*- this is not a typo. This is the true rated penetration for this bomb vs the rating it is given in UV



estaban -> (7/2/2003 5:33:17 AM)

Are there 800 KG and 2000 LB bombs in the game? I don't recall having ever seen these.



estaban -> (7/2/2003 6:36:14 AM)

Nikademus:

How accurate are the numbers you posted above? I seem to recall a game where one of my Yamato class BBs caught a few bombs from Dauntlesses, and was damaged to the point that I sent it back to Japan. The Yamato has 200+ mm armor on it's decks.

Maybe my memory is flawed and it was torpedoes that did the damage, but I thought it was bombs.



Zeta16 -> (7/2/2003 8:02:41 AM)

The damage could have been to top deck things such as radar, fire contro;, navigation, etc... . This can add up to 20-40 points in damage, enough to send it back.



Nikademus -> (7/2/2003 8:24:56 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by estaban
[B]Nikademus:

How accurate are the numbers you posted above? I seem to recall a game where one of my Yamato class BBs caught a few bombs from Dauntlesses, and was damaged to the point that I sent it back to Japan. The Yamato has 200+ mm armor on it's decks.

Maybe my memory is flawed and it was torpedoes that did the damage, but I thought it was bombs. [/B][/QUOTE]

Very. These are the ratings posted on the forum before the next to last patch and can be seen in the Alpha via the editor. They are unchanged since we are in the bug hunting stage right now.

If your game with Yamato was pre 2.0 (or around therein) at that point the 1000LB GP bomb had twice the pen rating it has now and was enough to penetrate any and all deck armor systems. Current patch....it will not penetrate Yamato but will penetrate all other IJN battleship's deck armor.

quote:


The damage could have been to top deck things such as radar, fire contro;, navigation, etc... . This can add up to 20-40 points in damage, enough to send it back


Not with the current damage model. If no penetration occurs, often no SYS damage will register....sometimes with repeated hits one may see 1% - 5% accumulation in total.

Only penetration can cause substantial amounts of SYS to accrue



Zeta16 -> (7/2/2003 8:38:39 AM)

sorry did not know that. thanks. so some ships will need torps or major gun fire to go down?



Nikademus -> (7/2/2003 8:52:18 AM)

Torpedoes are the ultimate ship killers because they have large enough warheads to defeat just about any armor scheme out there. Worse of course, since they always do FLT damage as well as some SYS they will quickly mission kill if not sink the largest of warships.

Estaban: I do not believe the 800kg or 2000LB bombs are in UV. They may be added to WitP however and are included in both databases.



Odin -> ... (7/2/2003 12:43:34 PM)

I used the editor to test some of the bombs...the 4000lb bombs are nice battleship killers, also tested the 400lb incendiaries...but i´m not shure of the special effect of these.

The lack of really heavy bombs still hurts me in game, f.e. the Liberator and B-17 historically could carry heavier bombs instead of the next to useless 500lb bombs...

Instead of loading a B-17 with 12 500lb, i would prefer 6 1000lb, i know they can carry this sice of bombs and even more.



estaban -> (7/2/2003 3:05:58 PM)

Here's a historical question, regarding bombs.

I used to read a lot on WWII. When I was a kid I went through Samuel Elliot Morrison's history of the navy in the war SEVERAL times. This is just one example.

From my reading, I recall a lot of references to an "800 pound bomb" that Vals in particular dropped. Does anyone know what happened to this bomb in the game? I was disappointed to see that the normal range loadout for Vals is one 250 KG bomb and 2 60 KG bombs. From the histories, I have heard very few references to Vals dropping 60 KG bombs in naval combat.

I would like to see the 800 pound bomb brought back as a "350 KG" bomb, and made the normal range loadout on Vals and Judys. As I recall, this bomb was also the long range anti-ship level bomb used by Kates.

Having this bomb in the game would be very historical and would also make Japanese dive bombers more effective against heavily armored ships.



dwesolick -> (7/2/2003 7:39:05 PM)

As one who plays the Allied side pretty exclusively, I'm more than happy if the Japanese keep dropping 60KG bombs! ;)



Nikademus -> (7/3/2003 12:07:08 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by estaban
[B]Here's a historical question, regarding bombs.

I used to read a lot on WWII. When I was a kid I went through Samuel Elliot Morrison's history of the navy in the war SEVERAL times. This is just one example.

From my reading, I recall a lot of references to an "800 pound bomb" that Vals in particular dropped. Does anyone know what happened to this bomb in the game? I was disappointed to see that the normal range loadout for Vals is one 250 KG bomb and 2 60 KG bombs. From the histories, I have heard very few references to Vals dropping 60 KG bombs in naval combat.

I would like to see the 800 pound bomb brought back as a "350 KG" bomb, and made the normal range loadout on Vals and Judys. As I recall, this bomb was also the long range anti-ship level bomb used by Kates.

Having this bomb in the game would be very historical and would also make Japanese dive bombers more effective against heavily armored ships. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'll double check my references but i do not think there was ever such a bomb in the Japanese arsenal. Most likely this is a typo that is reffering to the 800kg bomb that the B5N could lug when utilized as a level bomber.

The D3A "Val" was only designed to carry one 250kg. (and up to two 60kg little bombs, though this was reputed to have never been used in an anti-shipping role)



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