Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (Full Version)

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ThunderLizard11 -> Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/28/2019 9:46:51 PM)

Keep getting bogged down in Russia in my MP games. Are there any strategy threads on this or if not post new ideas here. Have had more luck with WaW but with much larger map finding that Axis gets bogged down and then soviets have level 2 infantry entrenched.

Here's a few questions for the experts out there:

* Where to put most of units? South toward Stalingrad, North for Leningrad, etc.

* Assume best to concentrate all in one area but is that not the case?

* Opponents have level 2 infantry and lots of anti-air units. How to counter?

* Opponents fall back so causing limited damage. Ideas about this?

* When to start - aim for early '41 or fall '41 or other?

Are there any tricks I'm missing against Soviets?




hellraiser1973 -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/29/2019 6:58:39 AM)

1. Any choice has its merits - southern approach = flatter terrain, suited to rapid advancements and less prone to supply issues caused by terrain; cutting off the Caucasus is a very good move, the USSR's income will take a severe blow. Northern approach = marshes, forests but smaller distances to cover; linking Finland up will increase their resources from 5 to 8 (this effect will apply to norway and sweden should you decide to get sweden as well).
Any strategy you might be pursuing has to take into the account the destruction of the soviet scripted units once Barbarossa is underway.
So you should have enough units to be able to destroy or at least encircle the soviet battlegroups southwest of Riga and west of Kiev (near the polish border).
As to your question "where to put most of the units" - to me, the south seems a little bit more incentivizing - lots of resources to take and those minor axis HQs will help a lot with the supply, which seems to be the main enemy once you advance too far.

2. Concentrate all in one area - By "all" I assume you mean the heaviest pieces of your army not the entire army. This is best for reaching very fast a certain objective but you have to be mindful of the other areas where your opponent might try something to offset your tactic. Also partisan management is crucial - you go heavy in one area, you need your comm lines open so as to be able to rapidly redeploy units in other threatened areas.

3. Lvl 2 inf and lots of AAs. He got lucky and you're having a harder time now. Assume you will be taking some losses but also assume you won't be seeing any major counterattacks soon since , at least in the early phases of the russian war, the reds cant have super teched infantry, lots of AAs AND lots of armor and planes. Not to mention HQs - which is btw, russia's achilles' heel.

4. Opponent is falling back limiting the damage - seems to me you got yourself a very decent opponent which is trading territory for time (which is exactly what Russia is supposed to do in the beginning). You need to find a way to apply pressure on him, shoot for NM objectives faster, try to force him to commit troops. He probably goes for the long game, buying time for the Wallies to tech up and buy troops and relieve pressure on USSR.

5. Start early or fall '41. I think it depends on the early game. If you did not get challenged much in France, Egypt, etc and you managed to build a decent army, go for early 41. If the UK managed to distract you and made you waste mpps, fall 41 might be wiser but the advance will be a lot slower due to weather and mud.

6. You're not necessarily missing any "tricks" against the soviets. Just set your objectives, go for them and most importantly check regularly your supply status as well as the predicted supply situation for the next turn. It will make things a lot easier in russia.

Have fun!




ThunderLizard11 -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/30/2019 1:24:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973

1. Any choice has its merits - southern approach = flatter terrain, suited to rapid advancements and less prone to supply issues caused by terrain; cutting off the Caucasus is a very good move, the USSR's income will take a severe blow. Northern approach = marshes, forests but smaller distances to cover; linking Finland up will increase their resources from 5 to 8 (this effect will apply to norway and sweden should you decide to get sweden as well).
Any strategy you might be pursuing has to take into the account the destruction of the soviet scripted units once Barbarossa is underway.
So you should have enough units to be able to destroy or at least encircle the soviet battlegroups southwest of Riga and west of Kiev (near the polish border).
As to your question "where to put most of the units" - to me, the south seems a little bit more incentivizing - lots of resources to take and those minor axis HQs will help a lot with the supply, which seems to be the main enemy once you advance too far.

2. Concentrate all in one area - By "all" I assume you mean the heaviest pieces of your army not the entire army. This is best for reaching very fast a certain objective but you have to be mindful of the other areas where your opponent might try something to offset your tactic. Also partisan management is crucial - you go heavy in one area, you need your comm lines open so as to be able to rapidly redeploy units in other threatened areas.

3. Lvl 2 inf and lots of AAs. He got lucky and you're having a harder time now. Assume you will be taking some losses but also assume you won't be seeing any major counterattacks soon since , at least in the early phases of the russian war, the reds cant have super teched infantry, lots of AAs AND lots of armor and planes. Not to mention HQs - which is btw, russia's achilles' heel.

4. Opponent is falling back limiting the damage - seems to me you got yourself a very decent opponent which is trading territory for time (which is exactly what Russia is supposed to do in the beginning). You need to find a way to apply pressure on him, shoot for NM objectives faster, try to force him to commit troops. He probably goes for the long game, buying time for the Wallies to tech up and buy troops and relieve pressure on USSR.

5. Start early or fall '41. I think it depends on the early game. If you did not get challenged much in France, Egypt, etc and you managed to build a decent army, go for early 41. If the UK managed to distract you and made you waste mpps, fall 41 might be wiser but the advance will be a lot slower due to weather and mud.

6. You're not necessarily missing any "tricks" against the soviets. Just set your objectives, go for them and most importantly check regularly your supply status as well as the predicted supply situation for the next turn. It will make things a lot easier in russia.

Have fun!


Helpful suggestions. Getting to Stalingrad is taking Axis too long. I still think I'm missing something unless the game is just balanced in favor of Allies - that is just pull back and wait approach can't be beaten.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/30/2019 3:16:02 PM)

TL2

What is SU mobilization in Dec '40 & April '41?




The Land -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/30/2019 4:15:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2
* Opponents have level 2 infantry and lots of anti-air units. How to counter?


Have you tried conventional artillery? Sounds like an ideal situation for it.

More generally, how conscious are you of the anti-entrenchment value of your strikes? So far as I can work it out the optimal order of strikes is:

*High De-Entrenchment, Low Attack
*High De-Entrenchment, High Attack
*Low De-Entrenchment, High Attack
*Low De-Entrenchment, Low Attack

... which gives some counter-intuitive results, like it can be better to move in an under-strength Army to make a strike *before* the adjacent panzer corps has a go.

(Though I couldn't claim to have rigorously tested this model)




ThunderLizard11 -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/30/2019 7:57:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2
* Opponents have level 2 infantry and lots of anti-air units. How to counter?


Have you tried conventional artillery? Sounds like an ideal situation for it.

More generally, how conscious are you of the anti-entrenchment value of your strikes? So far as I can work it out the optimal order of strikes is:

*High De-Entrenchment, Low Attack
*High De-Entrenchment, High Attack
*Low De-Entrenchment, High Attack
*Low De-Entrenchment, Low Attack

... which gives some counter-intuitive results, like it can be better to move in an under-strength Army to make a strike *before* the adjacent panzer corps has a go.

(Though I couldn't claim to have rigorously tested this model)



Not sure what this means exactly - so you're saying attach a highly entrenched unit with a corp or army first then armor?




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/30/2019 9:35:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

TL2

What is SU mobilization in Dec '40 & April '41?





The Land -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/31/2019 9:21:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Not sure what this means exactly - so you're saying attach a highly entrenched unit with a corp or army first then armor?


Basically yes - though not all Corps have de-entrenchment value, if I remember rightly.

If a unit has de-entrenchment of 1 then it will always de-entrench one level, regardless of whether it does any damage etc. A strong unit e.g. tank attacking in open terrain will do considerable damage once the target is de-entrenched, a weak unit gains less from the effect of the de-entrenchment on the enemy. So you ought to hold back your strong attacks a little.

The most obvious uses of this are with air, where medium bombers will almost never inflict damage, but will de-entrench reliably even in early game. But the same logic applies to ground counters!

I think the same logic applies for demoralization as well.




Hartmann -> RE: Russian strategy suggestions for MP as Axis (7/31/2019 2:25:10 PM)

Best for de-entrenchment is artillery and medium bombers. They also affect morale alot. I've seen reviews of the game where people complain that artillery "does nothing" (and compare this to games like OoB). These people haven't realized that the use of artillery is for de-entrenchment and demoralization.

Regarding strategy, in older games it was often best to have your best troops do a drive on Moscow (and Leningrad) - i.e. north of the Pripjet marshes. These games were modeled on the assumption that Hitler was mistaken in delaying the drive on Moscow in favor of getting the Ukraine. More recent theories say that going for the resources was basically correct and I think WIE does reflect that. Against a human opponent I would definitely go for the MPP which will win the game in the long run.




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