US aircraft deliveries (Full Version)

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sapper32 -> US aircraft deliveries (8/3/2019 6:29:28 PM)

Hi guys I've got 2 games going as Allies in the AI Game after France fell I had the option to have two air units that were for France to be delivered to the Allies instead so I opted for them to be delivered all good ,In the PBEM game I haven't had this option and I don't think the US has received them is this correct ? Should you get the decision every game ?



pjg100 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/4/2019 2:04:35 AM)

The same thing happened to me in a recent PBEM. France surrendered (no Vichy) in October 1940. Neither France nor the UK received the August 1940 US aircraft shipment, nor did they appear when the US went to war in late 1941.



BillRunacre -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/4/2019 7:16:54 PM)

Hi

DE 302 only fires if Vichy isn't formed, as per the Strategy Guide.

If Vichy isn't formed then the French in Algiers deploy a Fighter and Medium Bomber unit there, so there's no need for a delivery.

Hopefully this explains it in all the games being referred to here?

Bill



Mercutio -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/4/2019 7:57:08 PM)

But what if Germany got France to surrender by taking Algiers as well?



sapper32 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/4/2019 9:47:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Hi

DE 302 only fires if Vichy isn't formed, as per the Strategy Guide.

If Vichy isn't formed then the French in Algiers deploy a Fighter and Medium Bomber unit there, so there's no need for a delivery.

Hopefully this explains it in all the games being referred to here?

Bill

No not really so France has fallen Vichy has not been formed,The French colonies have become Axis (REALY) SO no aircraft, where are they the US would not deliver them to the Axis so surely the US or UK should get them ????? Have they suddenly not been built ??



pjg100 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/4/2019 11:31:51 PM)

Yes that was my experience too - France surrendered with no Vichy. So no aircraft deliveries. However the aircraft never showed up for the US. If the aircraft aren’t delivered to the UK or France they should show up in the US production queue at some point.



BillRunacre -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/5/2019 2:34:20 PM)

If France surrenders without a Vichy decision being offered then we don't really have a way to assign these units to the US I'm afraid.

I wonder if there is a deeper issue at work here, is conquering all of France (i.e. Paris + Algiers) simply too easy?



taffjones -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/5/2019 6:45:53 PM)

Hi Bill
I'm Sapper32 opponent in the PBEM game, I'm sure I didn't take Algiers.
I had units in the town a couple of hexes to the East of Algiers ready to assault it when France surrendered.
I had destroyed almost all of the French units so by taking Paris and the additional NM loss to France.
I'm not sure if it took French NM to 0% and this is why I got "All of France" with no "create Vichy" DE.

Hope this might help you track down the bug.



sapper32 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/5/2019 8:12:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taffjones

Hi Bill
I'm Sapper32 opponent in the PBEM game, I'm sure I didn't take Algiers.
I had units in the town a couple of hexes to the East of Algiers ready to assault it when France surrendered.
I had destroyed almost all of the French units so by taking Paris and the additional NM loss to France.
I'm not sure if it took French NM to 0% and this is why I got "All of France" with no "create Vichy" DE.

Hope this might help you track down the bug.

This still does not explain why these two very valuable air units don't appear either in the UK/Canada or the US on entry into the war?? This needs sorting out as the Allies are already on the rack.



taffjones -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/5/2019 9:00:25 PM)

Hi Sapper32

If I am right the bug is if the Axis has a unit within 2 hexes of Algiers when Paris falls, then France surrenders without moving its capitol to Algiers and fighting on.

This means that not only do they not get the DE to send the aircraft to the UK/Canada or for the USA to keep them.

It also means France doesn't get the additional units that deploy around Algiers to help defend it, so for the Allies its a double blow.



sapper32 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 9:05:13 AM)

Hmmmm and people are still unsure if the game favours the Axis ???



sapper32 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 9:07:07 AM)

So what is the Allied tactic to stop this bug abandon the defence of France and send 2 or 3 corps the help defend NA ?



taffjones -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 12:15:04 PM)

If this is the bug?

Until Bill and Hubert can patch it, I would pull the French unit from Tunis and place it in the city hex to the east of Algiers.

As long as they hold out it should stop the bug from firing. It will slightly raise Italian mobilisation, unless you ship in a garrison unit to Tunis.




BillRunacre -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 2:48:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taffjones

Hi Bill
I'm Sapper32 opponent in the PBEM game, I'm sure I didn't take Algiers.
I had units in the town a couple of hexes to the East of Algiers ready to assault it when France surrendered.
I had destroyed almost all of the French units so by taking Paris and the additional NM loss to France.
I'm not sure if it took French NM to 0% and this is why I got "All of France" with no "create Vichy" DE.

Hope this might help you track down the bug.


It does thanks, as in that case there is no Vichy Decision presented therefore no aircraft deliveries.

The best solution to this is for us to make an amendment to the campaign so that a Vichy Decision is going to be presented in most circumstances.

The options:

1) Changing the settings for the Vichy Decision so that it triggers whenever France surrenders irrespective of the situation in Algiers is one option.

It's not ideal as it can be a bit silly to have it fire if the Axis have done well in North Africa. This is why the trigger conditions were deliberately changed to only have the Vichy Decision fire if no Axis units were within 2 hexes of Algiers when France surrenders.

2) Make it easier for the French to defend North Africa. I have the impression from the posts here that the Axis are finding it easier to advance here than in our War in Europe game where this issue hasn't arisen.


I'm interested in your feedback on these options from your playing experience. 2) Is probably the simplest and easiest to implement from our side.





taffjones -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 4:38:45 PM)

Hi Bill

I think if France had an additional 5 strength Corps added to the town 2 hexes east of Algiers when they DoW on Germany it should sort the problem.

As it stands now, it is feasible to send an Italian corps straight away (2-3 Turns) to take it, while the other Italian units go for Tunis.

This means that the resource supply of the town is back up to full strength by the time Tunis has fallen and gives good supply to units ready to attack Algiers.

If the French had a unit deployed there from the DoW it would have good entrenchment + better supply by the time any Axis units are in a position to assault it.

It should also be able to keep axis units 2 hexes away from Algiers (unless they are landed by an Amphibious craft, but a couple of navel units will/should sort that out)



pjg100 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 7:20:30 PM)

What about requiring that the Axis actually take Algiers, instead of just getting close to it, as a prerequisite to French surrender? Seems that that would make it materially more difficult while still presenting an obstacle that is not insurmountable if the Axis are willing to devote sufficient resources to the conquest of North Africa.



BillRunacre -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 7:25:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taffjones

Hi Bill

I think if France had an additional 5 strength Corps added to the town 2 hexes east of Algiers when they DoW on Germany it should sort the problem.

As it stands now, it is feasible to send an Italian corps straight away (2-3 Turns) to take it, while the other Italian units go for Tunis.

This means that the resource supply of the town is back up to full strength by the time Tunis has fallen and gives good supply to units ready to attack Algiers.

If the French had a unit deployed there from the DoW it would have good entrenchment + better supply by the time any Axis units are in a position to assault it.

It should also be able to keep axis units 2 hexes away from Algiers (unless they are landed by an Amphibious craft, but a couple of navel units will/should sort that out)


Would a full strength Garrison suffice or do you think a Corps is needed?



BillRunacre -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 7:31:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pjg100

What about requiring that the Axis actually take Algiers, instead of just getting close to it, as a prerequisite to French surrender? Seems that that would make it materially more difficult while still presenting an obstacle that is not insurmountable if the Axis are willing to devote sufficient resources to the conquest of North Africa.


The trouble is that France surrendering due to its low National Morale can happen whatever the situation in North Africa.

But I have good news, in that I had an idea earlier which I've spent some hours implementing, and it should fix the issue whereby if the Vichy Decision didn't fire, the Allies weren't getting any US aircraft deliveries.

What will happen now will be that on the 3rd August 1940 if France has surrendered then DE 302 will fire, giving the US the choice between delivering these aircraft to the UK and Canada, or keeping them.

However, if on that date France hasn't surrendered then DE 318 will fire, giving the US the choice between delivering these aircraft to France, or keeping them.

Now, DE 318 will fire even if France is close to surrender, so the Allies will have to make a decision according to the situation.

The aircraft deliveries will no longer be linked to DE 602.

I hope that this will resolve the main issue here, with just the question of the ease with which the Axis can invade French North Africa remaining.




pjg100 -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 8:28:35 PM)

Thanks Bill, that addresses the main issue I have with this. I don't have a problem with French strength in North Africa. If the Axis attack Tunis the French can transport a corp into Algiers and move the Algiers corp to Constantine.



taffjones -> RE: US aircraft deliveries (8/6/2019 8:38:17 PM)

Hi Bill

Thinking about it, Yes a full strength garrison should do the trick, If its a corps then the Axis would gain more MPP when France surrenders.



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