I love the game ... but submarines (Full Version)

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crawdaddyo -> I love the game ... but submarines (8/14/2019 2:35:04 PM)

I love the game. Just have a suggestion on the submarine implementation. You can have 4 destroyers pounding the crap out of a german submarine and the thing still survives and gives off damage points. Hell the subs are more powerful than the german surface ships.



Nimrod 9th -> RE: I love the game ... but submarines (8/14/2019 3:22:27 PM)

I agree all submarines, not just German, are too powerful. For a grand strategy game like this I prefer a more abstract sub vs convoy/escorts setup. Something along the lines of the board game World in Flames (haven't played the computer version). Players would have a choice to place subs and escorts aside in a "convoy box" or move them around the board on combat patrols (go with spirit not the details on this idea).



smckechnie -> RE: I love the game ... but submarines (8/15/2019 3:51:25 AM)

There has been a long standing problem with this game series on how to approximate the battle of the Atlantic with submarines. In the past it has been too easy to sink the subs and therefore no axis player would put much of their resources into the wolf packs. This version of the game isn't perfect, but it does force the allied player to put more resources to secure economic resources. The subs are definitely powerful early on in the game, but you get anti-sub research to level 2 or above and they become easier to sink.



Mercutio -> RE: I love the game ... but submarines (8/15/2019 12:44:11 PM)

Motor boats FTW. They are cheap and powerful

I think carrier planes need to be better at ASW and against land based planes/units in general. I find subs mostly just a PIA to kill early. 2 levels of ASW and the subs can't do much and Germany (hopefully) will be having to spend their MPPs elsewhere.



Hartmann -> RE: I love the game ... but submarines (8/18/2019 1:26:27 PM)

I think the game handles things well here. Subs are a real threat in the middle of the ocean, but in the vicinity of coasts, motor torpedo boats, maritime bombers, and even normal tactical and medium bombers give good results for players that don't like to invest in ASW. As smckechnie pointed out correctly, there was no incentive for the German player to invest into the battle of the Atlantic in former installments of the game where subs were too easily dispatched by destroyers early on.



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