[Answered] NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (Full Version)

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TheCabal -> [Answered] NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (8/17/2019 7:19:15 PM)

Hello,

referring to this thread here:
Check this

I remember that SOSUS was able to pin-point the contacts in the first scenario... well now it does not, giving me only dagger-like uncertainty zones which are very long. Is this intentional or a bug? It's like one SOSUS array is only able to track one contact at a time. Maybe I'm missing something here.... but didn't the SOSUS arrays help in locating the USS Scorpion and K-129 by combining the data of various arrays?

Greetings,
Cabal



LMychajluk -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (8/19/2019 1:45:52 AM)

If you select the contact, how many SOSUS buoys is it detected by? If it's just one, you would only have a bearing to the target. More buoys would have to detect the target to triangulate the position (I would think....).



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (8/19/2019 8:41:11 PM)

I remember SOSUS not working like this in the first scenario. Maybe the devs could clarify as well because I‘m really confused like the guys in the thread I was referring to.



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (8/27/2019 7:30:16 AM)

bump....... can't play scenario 1 because of this strange SOSUS behaviour.



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/3/2019 6:11:54 PM)

bump :(



Raptorx7_slith -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/3/2019 6:31:12 PM)

It takes time for them to be localized/classified, and some may not ever be fully localized if they are in a particularly sneaky spot. Send some asw assets to search for them in their uncertainty zones.

One thing to realize about submarine warfare is that it is often slow and boring, the SOSUS information you get in this scenario is extremely generous so use it to narrow your search areas.



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/4/2019 8:12:39 AM)

The question is: Did they make ANY HUGE CHANGES to SOSUS behaviour since it doesn't work like it used when I last played the scenario. I had small uncertainty zones, SOSUS pinpointed the subs good as I would expect. Now I got something completely different (have a look at the screenshots in the linked thread, 1st post). This is what I don't get. 2 completely different behaviours... which one is the correct one now?! I still didn't played the first scenario... waiting weeks to get any official answers (like with my scenario-loadout bug I waited like 1 year to get some light in the dark reg. the Tanker 2017 scenario...)

SOSUS just confuses me as it works now. Something HAS changed.



Raptorx7_slith -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/4/2019 5:39:26 PM)

It changes because nothing is ever going to work out the same way every time because its a simulation and sonar doesn't give out perfect information all the time, I don't understand your confusion honestly.

You don't need to wait weeks for an answer because the information the SOSUS is giving you is perfectly fine for what you have to do in the scenario, infact its one of the easiest BECAUSE of all the information you get from it.



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/16/2019 5:38:02 PM)

My experience from the upper linked thread (first post) is similar. At some point, there had to be an update changing how SOSUS works... I never experienced SOSUS working like this months ago. The difference IS NOTEABLE AND BIG. Still no offical input on this since a month.....



Raptorx7_slith -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/16/2019 5:52:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal

My experience from the upper linked thread (first post) is similar. At some point, there had to be an update changing how SOSUS works... I never experienced SOSUS working like this months ago. The difference IS NOTEABLE AND BIG. Still no offical input on this since a month.....


If you let the scenario run for a few hours (the game gives you TWO DAYS) all of these contacts will be localized accurately. There doesn't need to be an official response you just need to be patient. The screenshots in that linked thread were literally taken after 1 hour and at the start of the scenario when none of the contacts were given time to be classified.



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/25/2020 9:20:13 AM)

Ok so.... any official information reg. this after 1 year? The first post with the link says it all. I didn't remember SOSUS working like this exactly like this guy stated. I posted in the Northern Inferno sub forum... 1 year ago as well.



Grazyn -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/25/2020 12:31:33 PM)

I updated the scenario to the latest database (deep rebuild) then let it run until the time shown in your original post without doing anything and this is the result:

[image]https://i.imgur.com/E6kmln5.png[/image]

Seems to me it's now working as intended



stilesw -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/25/2020 2:52:08 PM)

quote:

Ok so.... any official information reg. this after 1 year? The first post with the link says it all. I didn't remember SOSUS working like this exactly like this guy stated. I posted in the Northern Inferno sub forum... 1 year ago as well.

TheCabal,

Sorry for the delay, not sure why you did not receive any response. Grazyn's comment above seems to show that the problem has been resolved with a deep scenario rebuild. Could have been fixed in one of the database updates.

-Wayne



Dimitris -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/28/2020 7:00:36 AM)

TheCabal < Have you seen this?



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/28/2020 11:11:10 AM)

So I need to rebuild that scenario... ok. How about every other scenario/campaign as well?

I'm confused... too old for this.



stilesw -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/28/2020 1:52:59 PM)

quote:

So I need to rebuild that scenario... ok. How about every other scenario/campaign as well?

Yeah, it can become confusing at times with all the interconnections within the database and the operational code.

In this case the only scenarios that should have to be rebuilt are those that use SOSUS units which, I would imagine, is a relatively small subset of all the available scenarios.

-Wayne



TheCabal -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/28/2020 2:05:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw

quote:

So I need to rebuild that scenario... ok. How about every other scenario/campaign as well?

Yeah, it can become confusing at times with all the interconnections within the database and the operational code.

In this case the only scenarios that should have to be rebuilt are those that use SOSUS units which, I would imagine, is a relatively small subset of all the available scenarios.

-Wayne


How do I know which scenario needs to be updated to which database?
So, I go to that Northerin Inferno scenario in edit mode, choose the most recent database and rebuild it completely? Why do these official scenarios don't get any update reg. this. I mean... how am I going to track everything or know what to do when?

Thanks for replying Wayne! As you can see.... I'm a bit lost, trying to make sense of all and lost a bit of motivation playing a scenario knowing.. that at some point (maybe after hours) it's unplayable because I didn't rebuilt it...

Greetings,
Cabal



stilesw -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/28/2020 2:44:30 PM)

quote:

How do I know which scenario needs to be updated to which database?

In general whenever you update a scenario it will be to the latest database in the DB folder. Trying to choose a different one may not fix a particular issue.

A problem can arise when some non-trivial thing changes such as fixing something that does not work correctly – as in this SOSUS case. The Northern Inferno Campaign was one of the original DLC releases from a couple of years ago. The SOSUS operation was subsequently determined to be incorrect and coding/database changes were made to correct the problem.

In a perfect world all the effected Campaign scenarios would be updated and provided in a new CMO update which is also a non-trivial process. In the real world the campaign authors, who are not necessarily part of the development staff, may not readily available to do the rebuilding. The result unfortunately means the player must update the scenario until a new “officially fixed” one is realized.

I completely understand the frustration of spending hours getting into a scenario and discovering that a feature is not working as it should, through no fault of your own. Hundreds of hours go into the testing of a DLC before release but actual changes to a system’s capabilities cannot always be foreseen. Often information becomes unclassified or otherwise available since the campaign’s creation. Then the decision is whether to leave things as they are if it does not degrade game play or update the code/database to conform to reality and risk the type of problem you are observing.

I apologize for the problems this has caused you and want you to know that this type of issue is taken vary seriously by the CMO development staff.

-Wayne



Grazyn -> RE: NI Scenario #1: SOSUS bug or intentional? No fix locations on subs! (9/29/2020 8:06:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal


quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw

quote:

So I need to rebuild that scenario... ok. How about every other scenario/campaign as well?

Yeah, it can become confusing at times with all the interconnections within the database and the operational code.

In this case the only scenarios that should have to be rebuilt are those that use SOSUS units which, I would imagine, is a relatively small subset of all the available scenarios.

-Wayne


How do I know which scenario needs to be updated to which database?
So, I go to that Northerin Inferno scenario in edit mode, choose the most recent database and rebuild it completely? Why do these official scenarios don't get any update reg. this. I mean... how am I going to track everything or know what to do when?

Thanks for replying Wayne! As you can see.... I'm a bit lost, trying to make sense of all and lost a bit of motivation playing a scenario knowing.. that at some point (maybe after hours) it's unplayable because I didn't rebuilt it...

Greetings,
Cabal

Start a scenario in editor mode->click editor->select database->you'll see the current database version number (the one the scenario is using) and the latest one available (there are 2, for cold war and post-1991), if the current and latest number don't match click "upgrade scenario to latest db version"->check "force deep rebuild" and "apply .ini file"->click rebuild current scenario->when prompted, select the.ini file from the scenario folder (it has the same name of the scenario and ends with .ini)

Then save and load it in normal mode.

Whole thing takes 1 minute tops



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