v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (Full Version)

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Telemecus -> v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/20/2019 10:25:08 PM)

To get surrenders on turn 1, and this many, is surprising. Have I missed some reason why this should happen in v1.12?

[image]local://upfiles/53894/FC324E39AADF424387335129FB910E15.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/20/2019 10:26:08 PM)

Is this something to do with retreat paths changes and when they are no longer possible?

[image]local://upfiles/53894/D511F57D6EC74C1BA984A1EC83C52C1B.jpg[/image]



Ledov -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/20/2019 10:44:12 PM)

I have found the same thing for several turns now



RedJohn -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/20/2019 10:48:16 PM)

We've also had this, and confirm it happens even on turn 2 onwards. Units that are surrounded with no retreat path will either surrender or shatter - even if they weren't isolated the prior turn.



dgrimes -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/20/2019 10:59:20 PM)

In the combat display screen you no longer see any actual shooting.



morvael -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 6:15:04 AM)

I'll check why they are not routing instead.



sixten992 -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 7:39:25 AM)

Stating the obvious; if this phenomenon somehow is an intended feature of the 1.12 then it will make Barbarossa much easier for the German side.



morvael -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 8:36:29 AM)

I think that it's rather thinking those units were isolated at start of turn because their supply status is changed immediately (new model is too good). I'll have to remember unit supply status at start of turn.



sixten992 -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 10:03:13 AM)

I do not fully understand what you mean.


Is this a new feature to be reckoned with in 1.12 or is this something that will be fixed, and if not, does this mean that every time a unit is forced to retreat out of supply it will surrender or be shattered despite being in supply when its turn ended directly before the turn of the attack taking place?

Please enlighten me if there is something that I have missed.



RedJohn -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 10:25:44 AM)

From what I understand Morvael has said the new system is too good and it's immediately updating the units supply status when they're surrounded. So as far as the games concerned, the unit is considered surrounded and that status is applied on the same turn they are surrounded/isolated, rather than the following turn.

Basically it's not checking whether the unit was surrounded this turn or the prior turn. Which he says he'll add a check for.



sixten992 -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 11:05:51 AM)

OK, I think I understand what you mean. Thanks!

This "check" you are talking about, which Morvael is supposed to add; does that mean that (after the check is added to 1.12), for example, a Soviet division that was put out of supply in say July 1941 during the Axis movement phase (but being in supply at the start of the Axis turn), and also being attacked at the same turn by Axis troops, will rout instead of surrender/shatter?




morvael -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 8:03:20 PM)

The problem is different - offset (rout) move tries to find a path just like retreat, and when it can't find one - unit surrenders. It should not take into account hexes controlled/occupied by enemy. Should be easy to fix.



dgrimes -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 8:53:52 PM)

I am not seeing any sort of similar results (excessive surrender, shatter) in non-41 campaign games.




dgrimes -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 9:24:47 PM)

My comment was incorrect. I was able to duplicate the problem in the Moscow 41 scenario. Russian infantry division had an unreasonably low initial combat value, and final value, when its retreat path would have taken it through a newly achieved zone of control from a German unit. This occurred even though there were two Russian units in the retreat path square.



morvael -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 9:27:19 PM)

The problem is units with no valid retreat path (along friendly controlled hexes) were destroyed. Offset moves should be allowed to pass through enemy controlled territory. I believe this applies in any scenario, not only 1941 (but here is most visible, as it happens often).



morvael -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/21/2019 9:28:27 PM)

After fixing the issue an encircled rifle division was properly routed:

[image]local://upfiles/22250/F28CDDD0C7EA4A289C81ABC000A368E9.jpg[/image]



sixten992 -> RE: v1.12 many surrenders on turn 1 (9/22/2019 4:22:41 PM)

OK, great, thanks!



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