Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane!

Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (Full Version)

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jagsdomain -> Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 12:09:22 PM)
Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!! It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot.

Yaab -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 12:31:14 PM)
Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

jagsdomain -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 4:51:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Agreed but righr now there is no escort. There hit rate is amazing though.

jagsdomain -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 4:52:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Are Donries the German company?

Dili -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 4:56:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes?

jagsdomain -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 5:01:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes? Couls have been bought prewar

BBfanboy -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 5:03:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes? Floatplanes usually refers to aircraft with "floats" (pontoons). Flying boats do their floating on their hulls, with perhaps a couple of small floats on their outer wings to keep those out of the water. Grouped together, planes that land on or take off from water are "seaplanes".

Dili -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 5:57:31 PM)
I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

BBfanboy -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 6:09:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships. I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group. IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking.

Dili -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 6:16:07 PM)
Ok. I only have a game up to April 42 to check, i have 14 Mavis losses to combat and no kills. i guess it is possible. I also have more than 300 combat kills of my level bombers and also no kills, that instead smells fishy.

Leandros -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 6:20:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Are Donries the German company? Dornier, yes. The Dutch actually participated in the building of this type and were crucial in its development. The Dutch in the East Indies had them modified with American radial engines, more powerful than the original ones which gave them excellent performance. They did the same with the old Fokker T.IV twin-engine floatplanes which were designed to carry torpedoes, too. I do not think this is catered for in the game. The Dutch also did an improvement job on the original Martin B-10 ordered by them as the Martin 139 WH (Wright, Holland). You can read the whole story here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4691283&mpage=1&key=� Fred

fcooke -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 10:46:37 PM)
BB - some flying boats had defense to the rear. The Do 24 was one and Mavis had a 20mm in the tail. PBYs no, I'm guessing Emily yes. Of course the IJN planes were flying gas cans so easy to light up. Generally speaking I think more fighters should get damaged/destroyed attacking bombers. The mighty B-17 and to a lesser extent the B-24 are good at it, B-25s are OK. But IRL SBDs and others did a better job than the game seems to reflect IMO. I did once have one of those single engine Dutch recon birds get a kill once, which shocked me.

RangerJoe -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/21/2019 11:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leandros quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP. Are Donries the German company? Dornier, yes. The Dutch actually participated in the building of this type and were crucial in its development. The Dutch in the East Indies had them modified with American radial engines, more powerful than the original ones which gave them excellent performance. They did the same with the old Fokker T.IV twin-engine floatplanes which were designed to carry torpedoes, too. I do not think this is catered for in the game. The Dutch also did an improvement job on the original Martin B-10 ordered by them as the Martin 139 WH (Wright, Holland). You can read the whole story here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4691283&mpage=1&key=� Fred When I click on the link, I get this thread. [&:]

jagsdomain -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 12:02:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Dili I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships. I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group. IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking. What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was KB. Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history

fcooke -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 12:03:28 AM)
At least that wasn't just me then. I did pull up an old game in May 1945 - not a single kill by an SBD. A Privateer had one though. None by any of the Allied flying boats.

RangerJoe -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 12:37:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Dili I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships. I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group. IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking. What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was KB. Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history 1942, after the Darwin raid. The Hermes was sunk as were a few other ships.

fcooke -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 1:22:50 AM)
CA Dorsetshire of Bismarck fame went down as well....maybe another CA too - cannot remember. And I want to say something like 30 merchies. I think the KB was down one CV (maybe Kaga) for maint reasons.

BBfanboy -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 2:13:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Dili I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships. I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group. IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking. What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was KB. Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history 1942, after the Darwin raid. The Hermes was sunk as were a few other ships. Yes, the aim was to finish off the British fleet in the area, especially the carriers and R class BBs. They got CAs Cornwall and Dorsetshire IIRC. But Colombo itself was alerted and bristling with fighters so KB did not strike it AFAIK.

Buckrock -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 7:16:29 AM)
Colombo had around 60 RAF and FAA fighters, radar and a passable quantity of AA for that time but the Japanese did hit it with their opening strike of the campaign on April 5th. The British lost 25 of their defending fighters and while accounts vary on the Japanese losses, it was likely only 7 aircraft (1 Zero and 6 Vals) failed to make it back from the strike. The majority of the 91 Japanese bombers appear to have gone after the port facilities and nearby Ratmalana airfield, the rest going after the few ships still in harbor. The destroyer HMS Tenedos and the large merchant cruiser HMS Hector were sunk during the Colombo raid, two other ships were damaged.

Leandros -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 7:26:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe When I click on the link, I get this thread. Sorry: https://thejavagoldblog.wordpress.com/background-info-book-1/airplanes-2/the-dornier-do-24k/ Fred

Leandros -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 7:29:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was KB. No, but Japanese submarines did have some successes around Madagascar. Fred

GetAssista -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 9:49:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!! It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot. Wait until you see your starting Kingfishers on Naval attack at 1000 ft

jagsdomain -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 4:40:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: jagsdomain Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!! It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot. Wait until you see your starting Kingfishers on Naval attack at 1000 ft They could barly fly much less stack somthing lol

spence -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/22/2019 10:52:20 PM)
Most of these are claims made by PB4Ys (-1,-2) but all patrol type planes making a claim are included. Table 2 shows the USN/USMC a/c type making the claim. Flying boats made a total of 43 claims. http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories/doc/navy.and.marine.corps.patrol.type.aircraft.pdf

Leandros -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/23/2019 6:53:12 AM)
Interesting link. Thanks for posting! Fred

Canoerebel -> RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! (9/23/2019 1:42:00 PM)
Many years ago - 8 or 9? - there was a Forumite who got fixated on the anti-ship capabilities of the Emily. He couldn't let it go. He obsessed about it. I can't recall who it was, but it became a monomania.

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