Why neglecting IOS? (Full Version)

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cicciopastic -> Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 8:34:17 AM)

Hi guys. I really love your works! But why its so hard to find your games on mobile Devices? I read ah article stating that more than 50% of games are played in mobile..... now come most of your games are still only pc based? I guess there would be huges opportunities for you in mobile platforms.... i even own so e games on both iPad and PC (panzer corps for example) .


Please give us a sign of hope!

Cheers Ciccio



MrsWargamer -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 1:39:59 PM)

It's likely not so much the device is not desired or the operating system is the problem, but most wargames require a sizable viewing surface, and require the employment of a mouse.

Battle Academy is not impossible, and Panzer Corps is possible, but a game like War in the East is just way to complex, needs a much larger screen to be enjoyable, and would suck the battery power out of a device rapidly. That would also apply to most opertational level wargames such as The Operational Art of War, Strategic Command, and the Close Combat series is just to much in need of a mouse input device.

Most wargames on a small screen would be about the same as most movies on a small screen. I have no intentional of ever watching a movie on my phone or instance. Ok to use to play music, but not video. Those willing to use small devices for long periods of time for intense viewing needs, are probably ruining their eyesight.

There ARE a lot of wargames made for mobile devices. But they are made for the device. Most PC wargames are made with the expectation they will be played on a PC.
Chec out Joni Nuutinen if you need a wargame fix for your mobile.



cicciopastic -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 3:49:20 PM)

Mmmmh, i am not sure i agree. I used to play Commader the Great war and still have fun with Civilization VI: both games have huge maps, a lot of units and plenty of graphical details. Than u should know that Total war porting was a huge success.

I think dimensions dont metter here .... I Think it is just a question of production strategical choice.

Hugs, Ciccio



zakblood -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 3:54:14 PM)

if there was any money to make, then pc developers would still be there, as there not, it speaks for itself



MrsWargamer -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 4:38:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cicciopastic

Mmmmh, i am not sure i agree. I used to play Commader the Great war and still have fun with Civilization VI: both games have huge maps, a lot of units and plenty of graphical details. Than u should know that Total war porting was a huge success.

I think dimensions dont metter here .... I Think it is just a question of production strategical choice.

Hugs, Ciccio


I played the Nintendo DS Civ on a tablet, it was ok. It was a severely stunted version though.
You will find no shortage of wargamers who play Civ but refuse to compare it with actual wargames such as War in the East.

You have a right to play whatever you wish on a tablet. But I have talked with actual developers, and they don't do it for the money in most cases, because there isn't much money in it. That's not strategic marketing, that's the actual reality of wargaming.

Civ and titles like Total war are mainstream products. Most 'wargames' are niche inside of a niche product sold to specialty consumers. Which is why most mainstream gamers have never heard of Matrix Games and Slitherine. We are very demanding of accuracy and method of being played. And they are well aware of those demands.



Lobster -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 5:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cicciopastic

Hi guys. I really love your works! But why its so hard to find your games on mobile Devices? I read ah article stating that more than 50% of games are played in mobile..... now come most of your games are still only pc based? I guess there would be huges opportunities for you in mobile platforms.... i even own so e games on both iPad and PC (panzer corps for example) .


Please give us a sign of hope!

Cheers Ciccio


Apple simply does not have a market share worth exploiting. Android certainly does though.



zakblood -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 5:18:02 PM)

but most android users expect free or for very little, so the margins aren't worth the time or effort to develop on imo and is why most don't or no longer port



yobowargames -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/14/2019 10:42:32 PM)

From my experience:

Android Users basically expect games to be free or almost free. Only real way to make money is to have in game purchases or advertising. Neither models fit traditional wargames that well.

iOS user will buy a game but not in sufficent volumes or price point to make it worthwhile. Again companies make money by in game purchases or advertising.

Despite the widespread use of Mobile devices, PC is still the number one for most developers to make any money, especially in the fairly niche market of wargames.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 5:57:38 AM)

I have bought most of Joni Nuutinen's WW2 titles (for Android), at usually 6 bucks a go (Canadian).
That's like 20+ titles

He regularly updates them.

6 bucks is not much to ask for a decent wargame. And with something like Bluestacks, I can play the game on my big TV screen through my PC and not need to wreck my eyesight in the doing.

They are decent games, and shouldn't be felt to be lame based on price or device.
But he will tell you, he wouldn't expect to get anything out of porting them to PC.

One of the harsh truths of wargaming, is you likely need a real day job as a developer.
This hobby won't pay your bills for the most part.



zakblood -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 6:53:45 AM)

quote:

One of the harsh truths of wargaming, is you likely need a real day job as a developer.
This hobby won't pay your bills for the most part.


100% agree with this part, from what i'm told anyway and by Lance the yobowargames developer and others, and not just a few, quite the norm now days as so many say the same thing



cicciopastic -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 9:18:16 AM)

..... ok i see your points. I really am not in the position of discussing the marginability of mobile games .... so i will not insist on this point .... anyway to me is a great pity! I know we are in a niche (i have been a niche player since the spi and avalon Hill era!) .... but i Miss the opportunity of playng My favorite games anyware without been stick to my pc.

I was sick when commander the great war was not upgraded ..... even if i do not consider it a very complex game. I would love to play strategic command on my tablet! I think there may be some way to rise profitability! Say for istance..... immagine to port strategic command.... you my sell different scenarios as in app purchases or give the chance to play diferent nations only as in app purchases.

On the Other hand i would not stand the idea of having ads while playng.

Surely i would love to play ageod games, panzer corps, order f battle, toaw,field of glory ..... and many other on iPad. And i would surely consider to pay the app as much as i pay on steam.....

But probably i am once more in a niche....



DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 1:18:21 PM)

A few options still exist:

- If you had them purchased, buy a used iPad 2 or 3 with older OS and then install from App Store - they are still there but can't be seen with newer App Store versions. Then turn off wi-fi to avoid IOS upgrades. I did this on my old iPAD 4 and still have functional copies of BA2, CTGW and P & S.

- If you would like to play within your house but away from the computer - use Steamlink on either IOS or Android. I play everything Matrix / Slitherine from Pride of Nations to Strategic Command WIE on my tablets with no problems. Turn based games are low on graphic updates so you can use 2.4 ghz and get some additional range. If you are near your wireless router and want some more graphic updated speed for RTS etc - then use 5 ghz.

- There are some non-Matrix games that can satisfy a strategy or war game itch:

The Last Warlord = Romance of the 3 Kingdoms on Tablet.
Rome Total War Series - I hate RTS but you can choose when to fight the real time battles or just use auto-resolve.
Egypt Old Kingdom - great for early history buffs
Command and Colors The Great War - produced by Hexwar but don't dismiss it just on that. It's actually fun.
Wars and Battles - Normandy and '73 October War - nice turn based system.
JTS Mobile Apps - Civil War Battles, Panzer Campaigns, Modern Campaigns - still all fun and supported.
Realpolitiks - casual modern political game.
Wars Across the World - lots of scenarios historical across various eras in a easy to play format.



cicciopastic -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 6:59:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DonCzirr
- If you would like to play within your house but away from the computer - use Steamlink on either IOS or Android. I play everything Matrix / Slitherine from Pride of Nations to Strategic Command WIE on my tablets with no problems. Turn based games are low on graphic updates so you can use 2.4 ghz and get some additional range. If you are near your wireless router and want some more graphic updated speed for RTS etc - then use 5 ghz.


wow i didn't know it!!!!!! [&o] i already installed it on my ipad! i will try it next weekend!!!! thanks a lot!!!! [&o]

about the games you proposed:

quote:


The Last Warlord = Romance of the 3 Kingdoms on Tablet.

never heard of it, i will have a look to it


quote:


Rome Total War Series - I hate RTS but you can choose when to fight the real time battles or just use auto-resolve.

i got it on pc, but i dont play it much

quote:


Egypt Old Kingdom - great for early history buffs

i knew it and always thougth it was promising ... i will give it a chance

quote:


Command and Colors The Great War - produced by Hexwar but don't dismiss it just on that. It's actually fun.

dont like it

quote:


Wars and Battles - Normandy and '73 October War - nice turn based system.

i have it! its very nice! unlukily the editor disappeared after the second title [:(]

quote:


JTS Mobile Apps - Civil War Battles, Panzer Campaigns, Modern Campaigns - still all fun and supported.

mmmh ... i got a couple of them: i used to play them a lot, but i got bored


quote:


Realpolitiks - casual modern political game.
Wars Across the World - lots of scenarios historical across various eras in a easy to play format.

never heard of those, i will have a look to them

thanks very much my friend ... your post was VERY interesting! i will let u know how was my experience with steam link!!!

cheers, Pietro




DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/15/2019 9:16:59 PM)

NP - we mobile war gamers need to stick together - as the odds are always stacked against us [:D]



Kuokkanen -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/16/2019 5:51:59 PM)

Just buy a tablet with Windows operating system and play any Windows game on it the hardware can run. I have now an old one with 1,47 GHz Atom processor and Win8, and it runs every Matrix game I have thrown at it, including Panzer Corps, Battle Academy, and Pandora. Most demanding game I have played on it is Age of Wonders III. That... wasn't pleasant, but playable nevertheless. Just remember this: first touch on the screen moves pointer on it, and you need second touch on the same spot for a click. I didn't understand it the first time I played Battle Academy and I almost tore my hair off.



DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/16/2019 7:31:43 PM)

What tablet do you have?

I've considered this path in the past but the Surface Pro line seemed a bit pricey - compared to the Samsung Tab A I got for 229.00 USD that allowed for playing just about anything via Steamlink.

The obvious advantage of the Windows tablet is that you are not tied to your router range - so this still interests me.



Lobster -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/16/2019 8:19:47 PM)

Lots of tablets that run Windows: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=windows+tablets&N=100171661%204016%204809%204814%20600502556%20600502557%20600641752&name=Tablets&isdeptsrh=1



DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/16/2019 8:55:40 PM)

Thanks Lobster.

The reason I was asking Kuokkanen was that in PCs and other equipment, what is good for gen pop is not always good for gamers.

So a recommendation from a gamer would be more appreciated than the bulk reviews on vendor sites.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/16/2019 10:29:48 PM)

It's not neglect. As one of those have-to-have-a-day-job-to-pay-the-bills wargame developers, We already spend a ton of hours just dealing with the support issues of the windows PC platform that we develop in and understand the best. Yes, I can hit a switch in our IDE and compile a MacOS or other port (not quite that simple, but for sake of arguments will go with it), but none of our team has the equipment with the OS, none of us have years of experience debugging and troubleshooting player issues that arise, nor do we have the extra money sitting idle to find a few programmer who are experts in iOS or Linux who could support things once we spend even more time and money getting them familiar with our code. No player is going to want to pay 80-100 plus bucks for a game to "help" support that effort either. Too many folks already complain if a game is over 20 dollars these days even though the economics of it show those 20-60 dollar wargames in the 80s/90s would cost 40-120 bucks in today's dollars adjusting for just standard inflation. If there are indie developers out there making war games, they aren't getting rich from it and that also limits what can be done in terms of ports and localizations and other niffty things like that. It's just the world we live in right now. Maybe one day it will change. [8D]



Kuokkanen -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 4:14:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DonCzirr

What tablet do you have?

Asus T100TAM-DK002B
(B could also be 8; damn fine print)

Intel Atom CPU Z3775 @ 1.46 GHz
2 BG of RAM
Intel HD Graphics (GPU)
50 GB solid-state drive
Windows 8
32-bit operating system, x64-processor (wut?)
Attachable/detachable keyboard
Touchscreen doesn't work every time I start the thing (don't work now, trying reboot ... works after reboot)

As I said, it's old by now and I don't recommend it with Win10 (look up YouTube videos how it runs with 2 GB of RAM). I might have paid ~600 € for this when new.



wodin -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 10:23:10 AM)

I agree, you do really need a decent size screen, bigger the better.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 1:43:55 PM)

One of my favourite wargame developer examples (I'm just saying he's a good example), is Ron Dockal.

Just a guy working at home on a great game design. His wife helps out in the process. His real income isn't his games.

Great product. He's no minor game creator.

His games look shamelessly like old school board games. If you won't read the manual, don't expect to get anywhere. It is NOT coming to hand held devices any time soon. Doesn't have an AI, and there is no plan to make one. It's a hard core wargamers wargame. And a hard core wargamer doesn't need to be told it is out there, they'd already know (comes from their being hard core eh).

I have no idea why Fantasy sports is so damned interesting to sports fans. I don't 'need' to know. I couldn't care less about sports.
I'm a hard core war gamer. I use custom tweezers to move stacks of counters around, I have my special gaming dice of many colours. 100 bucks for a set of plexiglass sheets of variuous sizes to lay on mapsheets is just a common item to me. Spending days clipping counters is nothing.

There are things wargamers will do, and some things we simply won't do :)
The key to marketing to us, is to understand we don't care how non wargames are marketed to non wargamers :)



DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 2:17:48 PM)

Thanks Kuokkanen - I'll use those specs as a frame of reference on where to start from if I am inclined to get a Windows tablet in the future.

As I am home most of the time taking care of my son, the Steamlink method works just fine.

Last night for me was an off night for war gaming so I played Pillars of Eternity on my Android. Smooth and enjoyable.


One other thing to mention (to folks considering Steamlink) is that you can use it as a nice desktop emulator as well.

So for my JTS wargames, I just enable desktop and can play Panzer Campaigns, Napoleon series etc ...


Just watch out for older games without good Directx 9.0c support - like some of my older AGEOD games (Rise of Prussia etc)

Other AGEOD games like PON and FOG : E work quite well.



pzgndr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 4:28:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapnDarwin
Too many folks already complain if a game is over 20 dollars these days even though the economics of it show those 20-60 dollar wargames in the 80s/90s would cost 40-120 bucks in today's dollars adjusting for just standard inflation. If there are indie developers out there making war games, they aren't getting rich from it and that also limits what can be done in terms of ports and localizations and other niffty things like that. It's just the world we live in right now. Maybe one day it will change.


+1

A lot of the complainers need to be reminded about this. It's not like one-man development teams can do what Blizzard Entertainment can do with its World of Warcraft series and other games with hundreds of thousands of paying customers. Our niche computer PC wargame community cannot compare, and certainly not for any new game.



z1812 -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 4:53:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

if there was any money to make, then pc developers would still be there, as there not, it speaks for itself


Exactly.



DonCzirr -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 6:37:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

if there was any money to make, then pc developers would still be there, as there not, it speaks for itself


Exactly.



"What's worth doing is worth doing for money". - Gordon Gekko would emphatically agree !


I used to make the case for Slitherine to continue on in the mobile market - but due to the nature of the Android market and
Apple's business practices - I can't make such arguments any longer.

It's a shame however.

Seeing the quality of the IOS releases of Commander The Great War, BA2 and P & S, it's obvious that the platform (from a technical sense) can handle real war games - it's the business end that abysmally fails in such cases.






RFalvo69 -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 8:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

One of my favourite wargame developer examples (I'm just saying he's a good example), is Ron Dockal.

Just a guy working at home on a great game design. His wife helps out in the process. His real income isn't his games.

Great product. He's no minor game creator.

His games look shamelessly like old school board games. If you won't read the manual, don't expect to get anywhere. It is NOT coming to hand held devices any time soon. Doesn't have an AI, and there is no plan to make one.


I fully agree about Ron, but his "WWII in Europe" game (*) has an AI.

(*) Totally suggested if you are a fan of classic tabletop titles like the "Europa" series. BTW.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/17/2019 9:15:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

One of my favourite wargame developer examples (I'm just saying he's a good example), is Ron Dockal.

Just a guy working at home on a great game design. His wife helps out in the process. His real income isn't his games.

Great product. He's no minor game creator.

His games look shamelessly like old school board games. If you won't read the manual, don't expect to get anywhere. It is NOT coming to hand held devices any time soon. Doesn't have an AI, and there is no plan to make one.


I fully agree about Ron, but his "WWII in Europe" game (*) has an AI.

(*) Totally suggested if you are a fan of classic tabletop titles like the "Europa" series. BTW.


Did not realize that. Was planning to get next month when my budget is not preoccupied with the wedding.



namanjohnson101 -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/21/2019 8:54:21 AM)

HELLO EVERYONE,


Hello. I've been seeing all of these Android phones coming out with really good specs and really good performance plus the designs and features are amazing. Apple has seem to have stalled on brining anything great to the iPhone. I've been thinking about leaving the IOS ecosystem only because I don't feel like I'm getting what I'm paying for. So why would you leave the ecosystem ?




Zovs -> RE: Why neglecting IOS? (10/21/2019 9:51:00 AM)

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