Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (Full Version)

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Andy Mac -> Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/22/2019 8:30:43 PM)

I want to use this thread as a feedback and spoiler thread on the 3 AI variants I have put in place

In this thread I will outline what each of the variants is intended to do so DO NOT READ FURTHER as there will be spoilers

Anyone able and willing to help by playing one of the AI scripts please feedback below.
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Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/22/2019 8:31:09 PM)

OK I am assuming anyone reading now is willing to be spoiled...



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/22/2019 8:36:46 PM)

In post 5 of the Scen 21 thread is a zip file with 3 AI variants

All of them follow an aggressive strategy for the AI it will try to delay a SOPAC build up by seizing the usual forward bases and then strengthening Marquesas Tahiti etc and will do a Mersing Gambit and try to take the DEI ASAP before attacking Ceylon

1. aei21.dat After phase 1 which I include Ceylon in the AI in this scenario will hit Australia from West, East and North as hard as it can and will also hit India from Assam and the West Coast from its base on Ceylon

2. aei21-01.dat After phase 1 which I include Ceylon in the AI in this scenario will hit Australia full bore from West, East and North as hard as it can and will also hit India from Assam and will feint at South India to try and make you think its actually 1. above BUT ITS NOT

3. aei21-02.dat After phase 1 which I include Ceylon in the AI in this scenario will hit NZ as hard as it can and then Australia from East and North as hard as it can and will also hit India from Assam and the East Coast from its base on Ceylon to erode Indian air and land power - it should also launch spoiling attacks on Canada




Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/22/2019 8:37:49 PM)

I am testing them all but I only have so many hours in the day so if you want to test a specific scenario above please help yourself or load them all and take pot luck - that's also valuable to let me know if you can easily spot which one you are up against



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/23/2019 12:14:44 PM)

When feeding back if you could let me know which AI file you ended up playing and any observations/issues with the scenario it would be much appreciated



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/25/2019 3:21:04 AM)

Should we manually force a particular AI or is there a way to tell which one triggers upon start?



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/25/2019 9:44:56 AM)

You can either allow the Ai to select on of them by putting all 3 into the rotation or you can maually select the one you want to play by only giving the AI that choice



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/25/2019 3:46:00 PM)

If I go random, how can I tell which one it is? Just observe the outcomes?



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/25/2019 5:39:01 PM)

yup



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/25/2019 9:06:57 PM)

Gotcha … here goes … [:D][:D][:D]



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/26/2019 3:13:13 PM)

Please check commander on Midway ampib. 1st attack fails ~10% of the time, unless that is what you are going for. [;)]



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/26/2019 6:17:00 PM)

Anadyr (1363) start low on supply.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/28/2019 2:33:30 AM)

OK, it looks like I got the #3 AI routine above. Andy, I'd be happy to send you a save in 11 hours or so. I'm in mid-May now. If you could spruce up Japanese defenses while you have my save that would be great (but please don't do anything in China--I purposely do as little as possible there as it doesn't interest me).

Some comments:

I was expecting an NZ run, so I managed to land 2nd & 8th Marine Regts with a few other small units in advance. I've just been able to hold on to both islands with enough advanced SigInt warning to cover the landing beaches (i.e. "11/219 Div is on Holy Cow Maru heading for Gisborne" or the like). I also managed to get 51st Highland Div landed on South Island as well as some other U.S. regts. I think NZ is under control as of mid-May. My USN CVs, which are intact since they've been used very non-aggressively to clean up raiders off California and Hawaii, will hopefully establish naval superiority in a couple of weeks around NZ (once they've helped with Tahiti). Once weird thing is the IJN TFs which landed units at Invercargill are still there. They've been there for months even though I took out the landed units a while ago.

It takes a while to get proper recon units at Pearl (i.e. F-4). Once I did, I discovered Johnston Island has no ground units (at 9/10 detection), but about 75 aircraft. I'd say keeping units on the island would be good if possible or at least the aircraft should be withdrawn

Coal Harbor is a pain but it can eventually be dealt with once you buy out a division. It can be shore bombarded on a regular basis once Victoria is secure from air threat. The Betties based on Coal Harbor didn't accomplish much.

There have been a few small attacks on Anchorage. If this is a serious destination, there should be a bigger force attacking it. If it's a feint, then perhaps fine.

Ceylon is being hit with a lot. I managed to get 18th Brit ID, 7th Arm Bd and three Indian brigades landed on the island before the IJN CVs started to make almost daily appearances. I took out the Jaffna invasion (one IJA ID) and an early Koggala invasion, but a bigger force landed at Koggala as I was dealing with Jaffna and it's become a pretty big force. So far it's a stalemate and I hold Koggala. I'll probably have to get air and naval superiority before I can land enough forces (such as the two Aus IDs) to clear the beachhead. I expect that fight will last a long time. So far, no land pressure in other parts of India.

The IJ's NE Oz invasion seems to be doing fine, although I think it's under control for now. I have no recon squadrons, so I'm using the old trick of setting bombers to random ground attacks and seeing what they find. I landed 2nd NZD on Oz to help out there. No U.S. units have made Oz yet due to the shenanigans in NZ.

The Tahiti and other landing in the deep south are certainly speed bumps. I still haven't taken care of Tahiti. You might add some more ground forces to make these tougher--although that could be very demoralizing to the Allied player.

Raiders are certainly a PITA and they keep the movement of fuel and supplies down. I've relocated my Brit CVs to Perth to try to protect the Cape Town-Oz run. There's no point in keeping them around India since they'd just get sunk by a superior KB.

Cheers,
CB



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/28/2019 6:05:40 PM)

Thanks Guys

CaptBeefheart in this AI script the the early attacks are to slow down the allied build up and allow the AI to take DEI and phase 1 bases !!.

I will see what I can do on garrisons

Send me a save when you get a chance please

a.mcphie@btinternet.com



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (10/28/2019 11:55:55 PM)

Andy: Just sent you a save.

Cheers,
CB



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/7/2019 1:47:39 AM)

Hello Andy: I sent you my Sept 15, 1942 file, which I hope will help.

Some observations:

1) Looks like Dutch Harbor was taken and then abandoned. This may be intentional, of course. It looks like IJ only has forces on Adak in NorPac. A mixed IJA brigade is languishing on Kodiak, as it wasn't big enough to overcome the starting forces there (my suggestion would be to double the invasion force).
2) I sent five carriers down to NZ to try to clear things out, sank and damaged some IJN CVs and CVLs, but ended up gutting my carrier aviation with strikes against heavily capped TFs from USN and USMC aircraft. I ended up sending the USN carriers back to the West Coast for upgrades and some damage repair while the aircraft pools recovered. The IJN still roams around NZ more or less with impunity. However, by now I have plenty of defensive CAP for Wellington and Auckland and I have a lot of ground forces there, so there's no danger of losing even one base there.
3) I'm way behind the historical timeline in SoPac, since I'll have to wait for the CVs to return before I think about taking back Pago Pago, Fiji and New Caledonia.
4) In CenPac I still need to retake Christmas, which I'll do once the CV upgrades are finished. Then they'll head south.
5) IJA/IJN has sent ground units south from Darwin and the other Northern Oz ports. They are being stymied at Cloncurry and Alice Springs, though, since they are out of supply.
6) Normanton and Cooktown have been retaken. Those bases weren't reinforced with base forces or follow on infantry/tanks as far as I can tell. Normanton could have been a PITA with a built up airbase stocked with Zeros and Betties.
7) Koggala is still a stalemate. A deliberate attack was a lot harder on my forces than the IJ's, so no impending resolution here. I'm gradually building it to a Level 9 airfield so as to minimize malaria-zone fatigue for my guys.

Thanks for the great work, Andy.

Cheers,
CB



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/7/2019 12:25:42 PM)

Andy,

The following will apply to all of my subsequent feedback.
Settings:
Hard. Go to VH every 10 days for 3 days. Those are always very bad 3 days.
No withdrawals (I'm not used to all the allied withdrawals so didn't want the hassle)
Changes:
bumped PP to 60/turn
changed P39 main from 37mm to 20mm hispano and bumped production rate/duration (I've always thought US should have done this considering it was the only fighter that they could have built more of in '42)

Not nearly as fast as others. Still in Dec 41.
The large CV force sitting off Victoria has been finally moved by the use of subs, I flooded the area got a few hits and relieved the bombing pressure on Vancouver/Tacoma/Seattle. Not sure if you can/want to add ASW protection to this fleet.

Midway was taken on 2nd attack a few days after first failure, so maybe your forces are ok. I didn't try to resist, not sure I would have been successful.

Hilo is a very good diversion. Forces player to have to focus there while everything else gets taken.

Mersing works pretty good. Issue is that force will try to attack Singers on its own and it isn't nearly big enough. Gets mauled pretty bad. It needs to wait until the rest of the forces join up. Not sure how to do that in the AI scripts, but that's what you need.

IJ subs are all nasty. I haven't looked at their stats, but I can imagine what you did. Nasty! [;)]

China going well for the IJ in the east. I've managed to put a blocking force in place at Nanning that has withstood the first wave of attacks. Not sure it will survive the next VH set of days though. In a race to get 2 more corps there before then. We'll see.

Sorry for slow, but don't this is why I play AI ... RL interferes ...



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/8/2019 12:27:55 AM)

Pax:

I bumped P-400 production a bit in mine, which is more or less the P-39 you described, correct? I also added 10/month to P-40Es and Ks and 10 to F4F-4s and I think SDBs (which didn't help too much) and a few to earlier USN fighters. I added a couple of 28-knot BBs in May 43.

Same for me: The CVs stayed off Seattle until one of my subs put a torp in a CV. That took a while, so it may have been a good thing that they finally left absent a good base nearby. Maybe they left to bother New Zealand? Anyway, I have yet to run an IJ first turn to count the IJ's CVs, CVLs, AMCs (with aircraft), AKAs (with aircraft), etc. I should do that soon to see what the current threat is. If you have a tally that would be helpful.

Midway was taken the first time.

Agreed on Hilo.

Same regarding Singapore. The first attack was shredded, but then more forces showed up eventually and took it.

IJ subs are nasty, although they haven't gotten too many shots overall. Plus, a lot of U-boats impaled themselves on mines at Victoria and a number of ships and subs did that at Singapore as well. I haven't laid any mines since the early days as a handicap.

I haven't tried doing Very Hard. What is the effect of that? I've had it on Hard the whole way.

Andy: Thanks for once again changing things up for the IJ side. You are keeping me on my toes!

Cheers,
CB




PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/8/2019 12:14:34 PM)

VH pushes supply to islands is the primary reason to do it. It pushes supply in general, but specifically compared to HARD, it will get a lot more supply to islands which the AI can't otherwise do and this will really impair its ability to be effective. So periodic VH days is really important. 3 days at a time does a good job of re-stocking supply. I do it every 10 days, I think Andy uses a slightly different rhythm, but the goal is the same.

In addition, it gives the AI combat odds adjustment, which is why those 3 days are always bad. Think free shock bonus for ground combat, or free dive bonus in air combat. it means bad outcomes for you no matter what.



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/10/2019 11:55:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Pax:

... a lot of U-boats impaled themselves on mines at Victoria and a number of ships and subs did that at Singapore as well.

Only had one sub try to pass Victoria, maybe more got through?
Confirm, several TF's attempted Singers guns and mines. Totally shot up.
both of these are mid-late Dec 41 scripts.



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/10/2019 6:01:12 PM)

The Singers issue looks like a naval draw script, maybe to Johore?



Alfred -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/12/2019 9:36:37 AM)

Transiting AI TFs impaling themselves on minefields is usually due to having no MDL on the existence of the minefield.  Not something easily addressed very early into a scenario.  Initial waypoints for the TF can be ordered but that can also lead to problems as Andy would be second guessing where the human player is going to place his early minefields as well as where the AI will sow the at start defensive minefields for the human player.  The AI sowed minefields are randomly placed each start.

Alfred



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/12/2019 5:14:54 PM)

Alfred,
I hadn't thought of that, they might be trying to transit those straits. I'll see if I can't figure that out ...



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/14/2019 2:35:07 AM)

OK, so just reaching 1Jan42. Yep. I am slow. :)

West Coast
Coal Harbor will be many weeks before I can even think to start attacking it.

CV TF off of Victoria has finally left. I damaged several CV's, but with faulty US torps, I doubt I sunk any. They are likely just in drydock for a bit.

Seattle/Vancouver area has a lot of restricted ground forces deployed against a possible landing.

NorPAC
Evacing everything outside of Kodiak. Trying to get an Anchorage fortress in place. Maybe.
Ditto Prince Rupert. Maybe I can hold if attacked.

PH
First CV escorted convoy arrived. Mostly troops and fuel. Not enough supply, but that was due to not enough xAK's. Those have been arriving, so next trip will be better.
Hilo, is still occupied, but I have lvl3 forts now, daily bombardments (air and naval and ground). I will shift the newly embarked 2nd Marine Rgt to Hilo and then start attacks.
Midway, Johnson, Christmas all taken.

CHI
My blocking force at Nanning has survived and now been reinforced by 3 more corps. I think I can hold for sometime.
Pulling back into 3x terrain around CK valley. Will not try to hold Sian, but will try to hold CK/Kunming.

I've already lost a lot of squads, but that is good as it helps my supply situation. I still hold Changsha, but not for long.

Malay
I still hold singers and just got the Kota Bharu units back. The Mersing unit is in Singers, but not strong enough to take it.

DEI
Big Sir Robin to Koepang. Going well, but of course this is just a delay tactic. I had originally wanted Den Passar, but Andy fixed that idea in the first turn.

OZ
Forting up in Sydney, Darwin, Perth.
Sydney will expand the fortress area once Sydney is at lvl 5 forts. Everything has to be really tight. Pretty sure the IJ will try here, there have already been a couple of raider attacks.

Perth, will try to hold, but against determined attack, no way without jeopardizing Sydney.

Darwin, will build this up but not likely to hold. Need to make it pricey though. Lvl3 forts already and still going.

Burma
Cleared the southern ambush, barely. Middle one is blocked just outside Taung Gyi. Starting to move the reformed Burma Div north to clear the road to Ledo.

India
Karachi, Delhi, Bombay, Madras, and Calcutta are the 5 key areas. Each has a Command HQ assigned. Building forts in each. Calcutta and Madras have the most risk, but I plan to hold all 5 using mobile reaction force (not yet existing). Initial elements are just arriving in Aden.

Ceylon
Bait. Want to try and kill/damage as much as I can. I know I can't hold it, but I can make it pricey to take.

PI
Down to last few bases. Bataan grind is imminent. Lvl 3 forts and still growing.

NZ
Retreated to Auckland and Wellington. I just need to hold until I can get USN there. 6? months. Maybe.
Suva is already fallen. Depending upon what is deployed against me here ... no idea at the moment.

OZ and NZ are real dicey. IJ has untold numbers of CV's and BB's. Even with all of my CV's, I can't match up with aircraft at all. F2A/F4F aren't that good. SBD-3's hit hard, but are short legged. Gonna be tough to get all the way to NZ by June, 9 months before I see any F6F's … I'm hoping that I can re-take Christmas Island and then send a CV escorted convoy into Auckland. But that is a LONG way … 81 hexes … 11 days each way.
[&:][&:][&:]
[X(][X(][X(]
[:(][:(][:(]

Andy, you are a devil!!!
[&o][&o][&o]
[:D][:D][:D]



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/14/2019 2:52:43 AM)

Playing the allies for the first time in many, many years. Interesting in some respects as the units are so different, very defense oriented as compared to the IJ. At least here in the early war. The low exp and worse, the low morale make it very tricky to accomplish much. And both climb so very slowly. Whew!

On the flip. swimming in so much supply and fuel! OMG!!!!! I've been doing 2 max sized bombardment TF's on Hilo since Dec 10th. +20 days!!! as IJ I could never consider doing that. the supply expense!!! But here I am gaining almost 50K supply per day! WOW! [8D]




PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/16/2019 11:50:25 AM)

Chengchow assault went very well for the IJ, but Loyang has completely stalled. 1/3/42 and the IJ have had 3 very bad attacks. Simply do not have enough units to take Loyang and are beating themselves to death. You may wish to look at that script. Somehow most of the units for Chengchow did NOT continue to Loyang which is going to be needed.



Andy Mac -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/26/2019 2:50:20 PM)

Thanks guys I am dipping I and out doing more tests myself



pcellsworth -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/26/2019 5:23:18 PM)

Hi Andy. I downloaded your zip file today but wasn't able to load scen21 - it hangs. I tried loading with the editor and got a AeAiDAta::ReadFile error. Looking at your zip files I see a file NDetail23.txt. Should that be NDetail21.txt?

Never mind, I got it working by loading part 2.



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/27/2019 1:52:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Thanks guys I am dipping I and out doing more tests myself

Cool!



PaxMondo -> RE: Scen 21 - SPOILER SPOILER (11/27/2019 2:16:21 AM)

Loc ID 2827 I think has wrong TOE ID.
Should be: (I think)
TOE ID = 2827
Upgrade TOE 2851



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