Italy (Full Version)

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Dr. Foo -> Italy (10/25/2019 4:26:34 PM)

Italy has joined the Axis but is not at war with the UK?

Do I have to manually declare war on the UK?

I know the Italians were weak in WWII, every game makes them so weak they are almost useless. I know against the British they are no match, but I'm using them in Yugoslavia and they are just terrible.



OxfordGuy3 -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 4:56:46 PM)

The Italians did have at least one good general (Messe) and there were some formations that fought reasonably well, mostly the armoured (e.g. Ariete) and motorized (e.g. Trieste) divisions and specialist or elite units like the Folgore paratroops, Bersaglieri brigades, San Marcos Marines, Alpini etc. Most of the non-motorized infantry divisions (which was the bulk of their forces), however, were poorly led, trained, supplied and equipped, so it's no wonder they performed badly.




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 5:09:26 PM)

Yes you have to declare war.



AlbertN -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 5:23:05 PM)

Can the Allies declare war to Italy though?



Dr. Foo -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 5:41:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Yes you have to declare war.


I don't know how I feel about that. If the Italians can just hold back, build up forces and wait for German units to arrive in North Africa, it feels a bit gamey.

The British are not declaring war on Italy they are just moving units to the Libyan boarder and then back.

Any thought on making it automatic. Right now as the Axis players, keeping Italy safe in North Africa is better than being at war with the UK and on it's own in 1940.



apec -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 5:42:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Yes you have to declare war.


In my game Germany declared war on Greece which joined Allies, then Italy declared war on Greece but it is still neutral toward UK. Is not UK supposed to join the fight against Italy in this case?



AlbertN -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 5:49:10 PM)

By itself is not bad that Italy can ship to Lybia German troops whilst being at peace.
Just German troops cannot exit a neutral country to invade enemy locations then.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 7:00:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Can the Allies declare war to Italy though?


100% can. No reason they can't.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 7:02:51 PM)

So the this issue has been fixed with the A.I. on my end. I simply looked at what I would do as the Allies when Italy his 100%. And that is 100% DOW on them as UK and France. This was something I missed for the A.I. If you played me I would DOW on Italy within the 1st few turns.

For for A.I. games this has been fixed. Thanks everyone for finding this. You guys are doing great with the feedback.



AlbertN -> RE: Italy (10/25/2019 8:26:58 PM)

It is fine and fair that the Allied powers can DoW Italy.
But it must come with a cost. They're the democrats, they're not meant to go around declaring war nilly-willy.

I like the World in Flames approach there - which is easily applicable in Warplan. If UK / France declare war to Italy, or any neutral in general, it comes with a hit on USA % of production, and a delay in their war entry. (Just think that Pearl Harbour still happens, but the USA focus more on Japan, or have a belargued intervention in Europe.) Each DoW delays the USA entry. Plain and simple. Once USA kicked in ... well ... they can do as they please.

That consists in an effective choice, and not a 'no brainer' to instantly declare war to poor Italy and overwhelm them whilst they're repairing troops and so forth.
Alternatively other games simply give Italy a neat production boost and free units, IF they're declared war upon (mirroring deeper motivation of the Italians, as they're not fighting the Duce's imperialistic war, but they're actually fighting a war they've been pulled into by enemy aggression.)

Nonetheless, that the Allies can declare war to Italy, for free (or just bump up to 100 their status), should not be allowed.

EDIT / Clarification: The AI can be set to DOW Italy when Italy is at 100% without penalty. It will easen the AI computing and math.
A player on the other hand, with their full brain capability to plan, arrange and organize, must incur in a penalty if the UK and France declare war to Italy.
From the programming end, it should be quite simple to script something based on "Is Allied_Player AI? Yes, do X. No, do Y". A big IF function pratically!



RFalvo69 -> RE: Italy (10/26/2019 12:41:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Yes you have to declare war.


I don't know how I feel about that. If the Italians can just hold back, build up forces and wait for German units to arrive in North Africa, it feels a bit gamey.

The British are not declaring war on Italy they are just moving units to the Libyan boarder and then back.

Any thought on making it automatic. Right now as the Axis players, keeping Italy safe in North Africa is better than being at war with the UK and on it's own in 1940.


Well, this is what Italy should have done, and what the commander at the time (Graziani) actually attempted to do (i.e. to ignore Mussolini's repeated orders for a general "great offensive" towards Suez).

I do not have the game. However, Italy's main problem was the squandering of her (already) feeble forces in multiple "adventures". When the N.Africa offensive started, Italy was already in dire straits in Greece AND de-mobilising (yup!).

Choosing how to concentrate my forces is always the first thing I do when I play Italy in a strategic game. Believe it or not, Italy could have conquered Greece with 20 divisions and by starting the campaign in good weather. Instead the attack was launched with 9 divisions in late October, and Graziani was forced to start his offensive only a bit later. What could have gone wrong?



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