Cannot defeat the Soviets (Full Version)

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sn0wball -> Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/29/2019 8:22:20 PM)

I know, this has been asked times and times before, but for the life of me, I can win this game playing the Axis. I didnīt have such problems in World at War.

This last time, I tried to do everythign just right.

In July ī41, I am ready for Barbarossa, when the Soviets declare war one me, just before I can. By that time, I have Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary on my side, as well as Yugoslawia, giving me vast ressources of infantry. Malta has fallen, Greece has been taken. The Italians are all shipped to Africa, with few German help, clearing the Med of the British. The UK has been mostly ignored.

My Inf is 2, Fighters 2, Tanks 2 (nearly 3). In september, Spain will join the Axis, too. Then Finland. I thought that with Yugoslawia and Spain, the Axis ought to be strong enough.

In early ī42, I have Leningrad, Smolensk, Kursk and Rostov in sight, when Soviet resitance increases and progress in Russia is stalled. The Italians have taken Egypt, though. Progress in the Near East is too slow to impact the Russian theatre, tough. I am hoping for Turkey to join the Axis.

This happens in early ī43. Also, the first King Tigers and Panthers reach the Russian front, making some difference, but then the Soviets throw their Inf 3 into the fray - where do these come from ? And why canīt I get these ? And then in April, a joint US/UK force lands in Normandy without any warning, dooming my efforts for good.

And all that on Intermediate level. I have no idea how to do any better.



The Land -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/29/2019 9:23:54 PM)

So:

1) Be careful with Russian war preparedness. You can see it in the Diplomacy screen. It will start shooting up if you have many units in Poland (within 10 hexes of Warsaw). Plan your deployment before Barbarossa more carefully and don't be afraid to operate units into the right places even though it's more expensive

2) Your tech levels sound pretty much right so your problems are probably due to tactics. How conscious are you of your units' supply and readiness? Are you positioning your HQs carefully to get the most out of them? Are you concentrating tanks and air units to get decisive effect? etc etc



Sugar -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 12:46:25 AM)

Would be nice to see some images of the following: research menue, buy menue, research table (you can switch off fog of war, then the AIs research is shown), Axis` income compared to Allies`, map of the Eastern Front with unit attachments to HQs (will be highlighted by clicking on the HQ).

In general the AI is easy to beat with unit and HQ management, since xp trumps numbers and equipment. Unit`s xp is gained by fighting, HQs xp by winning. As you already noticed, the AI will seldom counter diplo, but that`s also true for int. research.

It`s also vulnerable to ressource attacks and encirclement. Russian Inf. lvl.3 is not better than other nation's lvl. 2.




sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 6:20:28 PM)

Thank you so far. I get the feeling that, as anyone who has asked such a question before, will need to dive deeper into the mechanics of supply and HQs.

Here is a screenshot of my eastern front, I canīt embed it somehow.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 6:28:09 PM)

This is August 1942, the moment of my greatest expansion. Here is the research table.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 6:33:53 PM)

This is the purchase screen, germans only. I have purchased all units of all axis minors.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 6:36:33 PM)

Here are my losses, or rather, the lack thereof. :-) I was pretty careful.



Markiss -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/30/2019 6:59:57 PM)

I'll let Sugar give his in-depth analysis, but some things even I notice right off the bat are the lack of German HQ's in Russia and that Germany only has Industrial Tech 1 this late in the war. You still had 4 HQ's available to purchase, but have spent your mpp's on other things. You need those HQ's, especially in Russia. Without them, you units will be in perpetually poor supply, severely reducing their combat effectiveness. Buy all of your HQ's, I know that they are expensive, but they are expensive for a reason. You need them.

The Allies have an economic advantage in this game. You need to research Industrial tech to reduce their advantage, if you don't, you are probably doomed in the long run. It is tempting to spend all of your mpp's on combat units and combat tech, but you must build your base first, or get overwhelmed in the end.




Sugar -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 11:34:26 AM)

At least you`re gonna need as much HQs as necessary to attach every unit, except arty and garrisons on anti-partisan duty. Each HQ can support 7 units.

Research: every lvl. of Ind. is worth ca. 40 MPPs/turn in case of Germany, and every lvl. of Int. will exceed research by 1%/turn, both are nobrainer, for Germany at least.

quote:

I get the feeling that, as anyone who has asked such a question before, will need to dive deeper into the mechanics of supply and HQs.


That`s certainly a good idea, I couldn`t recognize very much on the eastern front screen, but Readiness is a key function of this game, and HQs with belonging supply are major factors to consider. Germany has the best HQs on average and usually high National Morale, both prerequisites for high readiness.

Keep your research advantage by developing Int., keep air superiority by destroying enemy aircraft (you`re gonna need all the fighters to keep up with the Allies` numbers at one point), organize superior numbers of troops where you want to attack.

Oil: most valuable ressource ingame. Let Rommel take the Middle East and watch the allied income advantage disappear. Turkey is a valuable diplo target, after the joining all the middle eastern sources will increase their output after the railway is restored; but the strategically most valuable is Spain of course.

You don`t need other countries on Axis` side, remember you`re the bad guy here, and they lack tanks anyway. Occupying smaller countries keeps NM up and is done easily with 1 Stuka and Para each in 1 turn in case of Norway and Tunisia, and all will increase your income.



The Land -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 3:39:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sn0wball
I have purchased all units of all axis minors.


I wouldn't! German units are cheaper because your Production Technology tech applies to them (and so does your Logistics when you move them).





The Land -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 4:29:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sn0wball

Thank you so far. I get the feeling that, as anyone who has asked such a question before, will need to dive deeper into the mechanics of supply and HQs.

Here is a screenshot of my eastern front, I canīt embed it somehow.


A couple of observations:

I can't see clearly but I think you've upgraded most infantry with mobility - is that right? That is not a great decision for Germany - you have loads of units and mobility is particularly expensive, so most people reserve mobility for important units (e.g tanks, mech, antitank...) - there is not much point having mobility on a unit that sits in a siege or a static front.

Also you don't seem to be concentrating your forces. You need to concentrate offensive units like tanks, mechanised and bombers so they can act in a complementary way - on any given turn, use bombers and artillery to de-entrench part of the Russian line, then armies to batter it, aiming to create space for your tanks and mech to manouvre and take resources, get strikes on rear-area units, and/or turn flanks.

You will probably lose tanks to counterattacks, but you can then take enemy higher-value units with counter-counter-attacks... :)







Sugar -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 5:15:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land


quote:

ORIGINAL: sn0wball
I have purchased all units of all axis minors.


I wouldn't! German units are cheaper because your Production Technology tech applies to them (and so does your Logistics when you move them).





It`s much cheaper and also faster to add missing units to already existing army groups like the romanian or hungarian than building entire german army groups from scratch. You`re gonna need them anyway, at least against the AI with its huge amounts of units. Especially the 3 fighters can cover the whole Eastern Front, when the Luftwaffe is needed elsewhere and if the Red Air Force is kept low.

It`s also better to build up xp asap, especially for german minors. Even the average minor HQs can keep up with unexperienced russian HQs of better CommandRatings, since 1 point of xp neglects 2 points of CR. And after taking the 3 key cities someone needs to stay in the East anyway, no need to operate minor units to the West.



Fintilgin -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 5:40:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land

So:

1) Be careful with Russian war preparedness. You can see it in the Diplomacy screen. It will start shooting up if you have many units in Poland (within 10 hexes of Warsaw). Plan your deployment before Barbarossa more carefully and don't be afraid to operate units into the right places even though it's more expensive



This seems pretty ahistoric, given Stalin's willfull denial of the German buildup.



Markiss -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 6:26:14 PM)

It is worse than that, actually. The Soviets will actually declare war on Germany if you wait much beyond September 41. It is ahistorical, but necessary for game play. If Germany could simply ignore the Soviets, they would win the war every time. The UK cannot stand up to Germany alone, it would always be defeated before the US got into the war. Wouldn't be much of a game.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 9:12:49 PM)

Thank you so far for your advice. I have started a new game. This time, I have invested much more into Industrial Tech and Production. Also, I have build all my HQs. Still, I have also kept Diplomacy going, as I like those Yugoslaw troops. I have started Barbarossa with Russia at about 70%, and now things go much better in Russia.

Now I will have a closer look on tactics and logistics, as to use my HQs for better effect.

For next year, I will have to find a way to deter the Western allies from making any landings in Normandy. Maybe I keep the Spanish on the Atlantic, once they join the Axis. Is there any hard, scripted rule when, why and where the Allies land as early as ī43 ? I actually had expected them for ī44. Also, there was no prior warning of an impending invasion. I had envisioned to operate my troops back when I receive a warning.



Sugar -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (10/31/2019 9:50:18 PM)

quote:

For next year, I will have to find a way to deter the Western allies from making any landings in Normandy.


I guess that`s hardly possible, perhaps with Sealion. Also there`ll be no warning except your own recon. Further more, I personally do not defend the coastal line at all, I`ll operate sufficient troops after the first landings, otherwise the amphibs will probably destroy your coastal garrison, since their attacking ability allows them to strike twice, at first still sitting on the boats, second after landing.

And here a possible shortcut: for a decisive victory you need to occupy or hold the following key cities: Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, Cairo, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow and London. If you`ve got all of them but London, just bomb the garrison away and drop a para into the city. This way you`ll gain a decisive victory after finishing your turn.

Another remark on strategy: your timetable is limited, otherwise you'll face the entire allied power at once. Spare Yugoslavia, and concentrate on Spain and Turkey. This way you should be able to achieve your strat. goals in Russia incl. the destruction of the Red Army until spring 43. Leave your minors incl. the Turks in the east, this way you can use the entire german army + the Spaniards to destroy the WAllies.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (11/3/2019 8:27:52 PM)

Ok, so now I did it. In September ī44 the Allies sued for peace. I had taken Moscow still in 1943 and after that victory was certain and the game became a bit tedious, just as it was with World At War. Defense of Moscow was stiff, but as the Germans flanked them on their left, it suddenly broke down. Mopping up the last Russians beyond Moscow was more difficult than I thought, due to the long distances involved. In the end, I lost more German troops beyond Moscow, than before, probably because I was careless, overconfident and pushing them too hard.

Meanwhile the Minor Axis forces cut into the caucasus, finally meeting with the Turkish-Italian-Persian force, trapping a large Soviet tank army in the mountains. The Italians had taken back North Africa after the US invasion there through pretty cunning tactics: cutting of support lines with seaborne special forces, dooming the US forces in the desert.

The joint German-Italian-French-Turkish fleet was enough to fight of the Overlord Invasion, even without aircover, since superior British Meteors kept the Luftwaffe at bay. In the end, I noticed that I had destroyed the whole Royal Navy, one by one. Through carelessness, I lost Tirpitz and Bismarck in the process. With hindsight, I should have build that carrier after all.

All the while, Diplomacy had died down, keeping Franco on hold (is there a rule that at a certain point the Axis does not gain any more sympathy ?), until he joined the Axis through an event. I would have loved to see Ireland join the Axis.

Thank you for your advice, it was a great game!



Taxman66 -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (11/4/2019 10:43:28 AM)

Quick update, you need more than just a isolated paradrop on London. I believe you need to clear the surrounding hexes too. Check the change log.



Sugar -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (11/4/2019 3:18:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Quick update, you need more than just a isolated paradrop on London. I believe you need to clear the surrounding hexes too. Check the change log.


Yeah, forgot about the change.

quote:

All the while, Diplomacy had died down, keeping Franco on hold (is there a rule that at a certain point the Axis does not gain any more sympathy ?)


When the US enter, their diplo chits are worth 7%, making hits more unlikely. To trigger the DE to entice Franco you`ll need to take Algeria and pay 800 MPP a 200/turn. Not necessary if you're able to convince him before the US joins of course. Start early, and save the MPPs with Italy to be able to chit all of their points asap; against the AI this will usually be enough.



sn0wball -> RE: Cannot defeat the Soviets (11/4/2019 5:02:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Quick update, you need more than just a isolated paradrop on London. I believe you need to clear the surrounding hexes too. Check the change log.


Thankfully that wasnīt nescessary due to Allied surrender. Sealion ī44 would have been a drag, since England was completely full with troops.

quote:

All the while, Diplomacy had died down, keeping Franco on hold (is there a rule that at a certain point the Axis does not gain any more sympathy ?)


When the US enter, their diplo chits are worth 7%, making hits more unlikely. To trigger the DE to entice Franco you`ll need to take Algeria and pay 800 MPP a 200/turn. Not necessary if you're able to convince him before the US joins of course. Start early, and save the MPPs with Italy to be able to chit all of their points asap; against the AI this will usually be enough.


Ah, I see, that makes sense. Indeed, after that, I did hardly make any progress. Only after Moscow fell, Syria suddenly joined the Axis.



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