First Battle Impressions (Full Version)

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Kinugasa -> First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 2:42:16 PM)

Hi, Alvaro Sousa!
Thanks You for a full transparent and a very analytical game.
But I should Tell You about some strategical issues in the game. It is very simple, first declare war on Denmark, then Norway and Holland, each time singly.

It seems to me that with the aggression of Nazi Germany against the Scandinavian countries, there should be an increase in the activity of the Allies against Germany. It seems to me that if Germany invades Denmark, the Allies should simultaneously begin landing in Norway ...



gwgardner -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 3:31:18 PM)

+1 in general, I mean there should be an Allied response in the cases you've given of piecemeal AXIS attacks. Perhaps Norway should have a huge increase in diplomatic leaning towards the Allies. Or a chance of joining the Allies immediately. Certainly Belgium should join the Allies whenever the Netherlands or Luxembourg are attacked singly.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 3:53:15 PM)

Thank you for buying the game and from the post I assume you enjoy it. I take all suggestions and recommendations placing them on a list to be reviewed... even if I don't agree with them initially. That way I can take the set time I have during the day and evaluate everything from an objective perspective. So always feel free to post ideas. I read everything. If I don't replay it means somehow the system marked the post as "read" and I missed it.

This is a balancing issue that I am slowly addressing as I see more games. So let's talk about each situation.

Historically logical moves were not in the intent of these countries. So do I follow history or what ifs?

Denmark - German player invading Denmark is a must. He has to do it no matter what. Sooner rather than later because the UK can act on it.

Norway - Linking Denmark to Norway forces the German player to also invade Norway. The invasion of Norway was a miracle operation by the Germans. With hindsight and an observant human Allied player Norway would be a logistical and production drain on the Axis players that would impact the future. Personally I don't ever invade Norway.

Netherlands & Belgium - I posted on this already. Belgium historically had no intention of getting involved no matter what happened despite all the signs that Hitler was basically an asshole. Netherlands was just a steeping stone. So do I limit here and potentially spoil a game early? Say I make some decision events that lead to the Allies being easily able to defend vs Germany. In which the German player must exactly follow protocol or be stuck in France till late 1941. It pretty much ruins the game fun for the Axis. I have seen this happen in CEaW and WiF.

So in each case making special rules for each country really limits the German player to certain strategies. I thought about increasing USA entry but really it doesn't impact much.

What I have been doing is changing the environment from the Allied perspective and what they can do to counter this. I don't like sharing strategies because I want the players to figure it out. But let's look at what the Allies can do.

#1 Invade Norway themselves.
#2 Immediately move to Narvik land and air forces if Norway is DOWed on
#3 Move up to the Dyle if Belgium isn't conquered. As is I am making it more difficult for the German player to attack Belgium in the Winter.
#4 Not caring about North African garrisons for France and moving troops into France. So what if Italy DOWs. Bring it on!!
#5 The "Big BEF" strategy employing a lot of armor in France

While strategies like this don't have immediate visual gains they do in the long run. The Allies aren't winning on the 1st turns of the game, they are most likely winning on the last turns.

I am trying not to limit what the Axis can do but expand what the Allies can do if that makes sense.

As is I am tending to lower rail capacity for Germany if the current configuration still results in Germany blowing into France.

There is also a time table for Germany and weather to accomplish all these things.
Your ideas are already on my list. They are not dismissed yet but I am trying alternative strategies to counter this before making limiting strategies.



Michael T -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 7:56:38 PM)

Sounds like it soon won't be worth playing the Germans. No worries, I will stick to playing the Allies.



ncc1701e -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 8:17:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

#1 Invade Norway themselves.
#2 Immediately move to Narvik land and air forces if Norway is DOWed on
#3 Move up to the Dyle if Belgium isn't conquered. As is I am making it more difficult for the German player to attack Belgium in the Winter.


#1 This was indeed the intention of France/UK but Germany was faster.

#2 What was done historically.

#3 What do you mean? By lining up French/UK corps on the Dyle instead of the Belgium ones? Basically declaring war against Belgium as Allies? [:D]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/3/2019 8:26:43 PM)

#3 is if the Germans DOW on Belgium and don't do it properly because they are putzing around elsewhere you move up to the river line. Even if you split some corps you delay them. Lots of strategies I've done over the years.



Kinugasa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/6/2019 7:15:59 PM)

Alvaro, thanks for your answers.

It seems to me that the problem is that the players playing the WarPlan are well aware of the history of World War II and turning alternative points.

It seems to me that the Nazi invasion of Denmark, without the German invasion of Norway at the same time, should cause, with a certain degree of probability, the Allied invasion of Norway.

Since 1920's, the German attack of the Denmark and Norway was a standard naval strategist's planned decision for future's naval operations freedom in Northern Atlantic.

I Believe that if Germany does not cautiously send an naval expedition to Narvik, it should, with a certain degree of probability, receive a British naval landing in Narvik.

I also believe that the declaration of war by Germany as the Netherlands should entail, in the random part of cases, the entry of Belgium into the war.

I think it would be wise to have three modes in the game - “historical”, when the schedule as a whole corresponds to the historical course of events; “Free” is what you have implemented now; “Strategic-dynamic”, that is, when some decisions in a given move would entail a random, but strategically and operationally justified reaction of the other side.

I look forward to Pacific Theater DLC for WarPlan. I very good say the Pacific Naval operations, and I very interested in testing of this game's future part.

Thanks for WarPlan. It's fine game with very logic and transparent interface, without micromanagement, and with very accurate focus in strategic choice problems.

P.S. In the scenario 1939 [01/09/1939], You with a historical accuracy needs to place a german raider fleet formation, the panzershiffe 'Deutchland' in zone slightly Southern a Greenland, with a special fleet oiler.



Kinugasa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/6/2019 9:16:17 PM)

It's very strange... Or it's correct?
If Germany realize the ice-hearted, step-by-step accurate offensive in the Western Front in scenario 1939, the German Generals meets with a version of Schlieffen Plan, if the Nazis concentrate a enough force of tanks or mechanized corps on the Right Flank... Probably, this is a fine strategic vision, but is it a very accurate historic vision? I'm very glad, in this allied Command no take off a most of very historical mistakes. But, I very confused with a Schlieffen Plan victory potential. I'm not of his partisans, no.



Kinugasa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/7/2019 5:11:06 PM)

quote:

Norway - Linking Denmark to Norway forces the German player to also invade Norway. The invasion of Norway was a miracle operation by the Germans. With hindsight and an observant human Allied player Norway would be a logistical and production drain on the Axis players that would impact the future. Personally I don't ever invade Norway.

Fine!
After 1 or 2 months of Germany Norway's occupation Great Britain attacks Narvick!
Thanks.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: First Battle Impressions (11/8/2019 1:50:56 AM)

You can't repeat history. We have hindsight. Things just need to be balanced for play allowing for the most options. That's how I try to design.

So take netherlands belgium. Say the rule is you attack one and both go Allies. Well why would you ever attack them until next summer? Limiting.

But let the Germans player attack them individually taking a risk the weather turns bad. Not he has a positive option and a consequence of failure. Weather turns bad Allies move up to the Dyle.

So I try not to lock down limiting rules.



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