Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (Full Version)

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Navaronegun -> Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/4/2019 8:13:58 PM)

I've scoured the rules and the forums for this, but haven't successfully found an answer. If the French remove Garrisons from North Africa and/or Syria, there is (my guess) a Rightist Schism and Vichy forms.

1.) Is this intentional?

2.) What are the parameters of this? Can the garrisons leave the capitals? What triggers this effect?

Thanks,

Pat




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/4/2019 9:01:20 PM)

If French leave French colonies it allows Italy to come into the war... that's it. Vichy is formed as a negotiated surrender



AlbertN -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/4/2019 9:55:22 PM)

Right now 1 unit in Algiers suffices to keep Italy out of the war.
I hope it will change.



Navaronegun -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 1:11:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

If French leave French colonies it allows Italy to come into the war... that's it. Vichy is formed as a negotiated surrender


Hmmm, if your intent is to allow an Italian DoW on France if the French move military units out, then it should probably be a choice for the Axis player, allowing them to declare war rather than an automatic event. In a PBEM game, there is the potential for unintended consequences. As the Allies I evacuated all, had units at sea, and then was able to invade Italy and take Rome with the Units at Sea and the now pro-British French Fleet. So putting the Axis in the driver's seat for the decision to declare war on France may be a better move.

The Axis should have the option to Declare war, rather than an automatic status, IMO.

Also, forming Vichy immediately seems pretty harsh and a bit ahistoric as a result merely of an early state of war between France and Italy. IMO. Maybe a reduction of French Morale might be a better move, so that if there are losses of territory in France during the war in the West Vichy would be formed (say Rouen and Calais), signifying the French High Command's displeasure and resistance to an abandonment of the colonies. That way, if the colonies are abandoned France becomes more "brittle".

The French War Plan indeed involved keeping the NA Colonies garrisoned in the event of an Italian attack. Il Duce was worried about a French attack in NA which is a large reason he stayed out of the early war (Prior to Fall Rot). If simulating this dilemma is your intent, it might be better to just disallow all movement out of the NA colonies (and Syria).

Just some thoughts.

Pat




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 2:11:45 PM)

I was considering a 1939 scenario where the Italians could DOW right away specifically for PBEM. In an A.I. game it just doesn't work. Axis player can easily overrun the Allies in that spot. It takes a lot of finesse to maneuver vs an Axis human player if Italy DOWs in 1939.

Maybe I will add that to the scenario list.

But there are consequences. Say the French pull out of Tunisia and just leave Algiers. Germans take Paris. Now Italy DOWs. Germans don't accept Vichy until Algiers is taken which now is fairly easy. So there is some reason to keep them there. Ok so you might think well I will transport them back when they get close to Paris. Well that will take a rail, then a transport move which now lowers the effectiveness of the unit. On top of that they won't be entrenched. So you are looking at 4 turns to get them back to the same status they were if you hadn't moved them at all.



Navaronegun -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 2:29:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

I was considering a 1939 scenario where the Italians could DOW right away specifically for PBEM. In an A.I. game it just doesn't work. Axis player can easily overrun the Allies in that spot. It takes a lot of finesse to maneuver vs an Axis human player if Italy DOWs in 1939.

Maybe I will add that to the scenario list.

But there are consequences. Say the French pull out of Tunisia and just leave Algiers. Germans take Paris. Now Italy DOWs. Germans don't accept Vichy until Algiers is taken which now is fairly easy. So there is some reason to keep them there. Ok so you might think well I will transport them back when they get close to Paris. Well that will take a rail, then a transport move which now lowers the effectiveness of the unit. On top of that they won't be entrenched. So you are looking at 4 turns to get them back to the same status they were if you hadn't moved them at all.


Oh I agree with all the above 100%. To be clear, my comment above on the Italian DoW being better in the Axis' hands is purely in relation to the Italian DOW as a result of a French abandonment of the colonies. As it stands, the Allies can make that happen automatically via abandonment. I just think it'd be better that if the French abandon then the Italians can *choose* to DoW France.



Navaronegun -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 3:12:28 PM)

Just ran through a Hotseat. DoW is in Italy's hands, so mea culpa there. Having said that France's ability to DoW Italy lets me launch a surprise Invasion of Italy from North Africa and overland. Italy can be taken out while Poland is occurring and Germany tries to rush back.



AlbertN -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 3:24:31 PM)

I think the Allies can still DoW Italy without any problem or lashback either. (Or any Italian boost on aggression)



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Vichy Forms if the Colonies "Abandoned"? (11/5/2019 3:55:34 PM)

The Italian issue is being fixed next patch.



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