how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (Full Version)

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von Runstedt -> how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 3:34:26 PM)

In my current campaign as the Germans in 1941, I've managed to drive down soviet numbers to about 2.7M. This implies that the Soviets should still have a fair amount of troops left, but they are practically on their last legs to judge by what I'm seeing. For instance, the bulk of the Soviet forces are concentrated around Leningrad and this amounts to 500-700k by my estimates. The next biggest concentration is in the Crimea and this amounts to about 200-300k. Theres maybe 50-100k on Moscow itself and maybe another 100k along the entire rest of the front. At best this amounts to about 1.2M troops. Its entirely possible that there are significant forces that arent within observation range (e.g. frozen Caucasus units and units enroute to the front) but I can't imagine that this unaccounted for 1.5M troops is solely in units that I can't see yet which must mean that a very substantial number of soviet "troops" are things like air and headquarters troops right? and it just made me curious if that is accounted for in the OoB numbers and if so how many non-combat troops there are.



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 4:11:12 PM)

Do you have a screenshot? Do you have FoW on? If yes are you only describing what you see in the first line?



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 6:46:00 PM)

I've tried taking screen shots but it keeps saying that they are too big? this forum can only take 500kbs screen shots apparently and the smallest any of my screen shots are is 700kbs. I tried cutting down the pictures but for most of them I would have had to cut so much that they would become worthless. Is there some other means of posting screenshots? because I know I had no problem posting screen shots on the WITW forum and the files were the same size as the ones I'm trying to post here.

I did have FOW on but I had done extensive recon of the areas near the front in my original assessment. I turned off FOW and apart from the frozen units in the Caucasus, it hasn't changed my assessment. The situation at the front was pretty much as I described and I didnt see any reinforcements that would have been out of view from recon.



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 7:06:41 PM)

Have you tried snipping tool built in to windows? Perhaps you could do one screenshot for north, one for centre and so on to make them smaller?



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 7:06:55 PM)

I counted the number of Sov units with FOW turned off and the Soviets had 117 infantry, cavalry and armored divisions, 6 infantry brigades, 2 airborne brigades and 2 nkvd security regiments in the area along the front. There were another 14 frozen divisions in the Caucasus. Assuming on average 10k troops per division, 117 * 10k is about 1.17M troops + 30-40k troops in the other miscellaneous units comes to about 1.2M as I guessed. The 14 divisons in the Caucasus would only add another 140k to that total so that leaves about 1.35M troops unaccounted for among the combat units



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 7:08:47 PM)

I did zoom in on each sector of the front to look at each area in turn and those are the screenshots that were too large for the forum. I have not heard of the snipping tool, what is it?



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 7:15:25 PM)

Snipping tool is one of the built in apps with windows - look on your app list to open it. The smallest screenshot possible with it I believe is 1 kb. Even if you make a screenshot of 3 hexes radius around Leningrad I cannot imagine that would be more than 100 kb



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 7:27:06 PM)

I tried the snipping tool and no matter how small of a snippet I took, it always came out as a 1.21mb file size for some reason, is there something I'm missing with using it?



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 8:03:41 PM)

I hope these arent too zoomed out, I just use paint and cut most of the images out

[image]local://upfiles/41894/1B8E77EBD3A5439BBA23B59D40EA0A16.jpg[/image]



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 8:04:23 PM)

center

[image]local://upfiles/41894/0045410F377B4687AB21DF8BBB8D4454.jpg[/image]



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 8:04:51 PM)

south

[image]local://upfiles/41894/AF426E7E1CC7473CA41D517077248623.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 8:48:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Runstedt
I tried the snipping tool and no matter how small of a snippet I took, it always came out as a 1.21mb file size for some reason, is there something I'm missing with using it?


Yes the reason for the large file size is to save the large white area around it and not just the picture of the map.

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Runstedt
I hope these arent too zoomed out, I just use paint and cut most of the images out


You could just save the snip you took in the snipping tool directly as a jpg and upload that - no need for paint at all for one simple screenshot?



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 8:56:18 PM)

On the issue at hand yes that does look amazingly deserted. There is the concentration of units in Leningrad that you mentioned, even in places North of Leningrad where it is not needed. But nothing much elsewhere. Even the AI does try to make some sort of picket line or screen. So I would suspect there must be some units to form a line, even if only every other hex, further back. In bad terrain you do need a lot of recon to pick up units in the rear area - how many recon missions have you done. I would typically be doing a number in the three figures to be sure. The fact that there are literally no units in the rear which you have on low detection is indicative of not a lot of air recon.

Could it be there is a line of units maybe 10 hexes back or more that you have simply not spotted?



Telemecus -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 9:38:08 PM)

Just took a Soviet file from another game and looked at their OOB. It was over 5 million, but 500,000 was made up of offmap support units, 200,000 of airbase personal and 100k in HQ personnel. These may be similar numbers to the Soviet army you are looking at now as your successes would have disproportionately affected on map combat units. Have you considered these already or would adding in 800k in these units make a big difference?



von Runstedt -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/8/2019 11:18:35 PM)

Yeah, I don’t post very often so this hasn’t really been an issue that I’ve had to tackle before now.

Regardless, as I said earlier these images are with FOW turned off, the recon doesn’t matter here since everything is now visible. This isn’t really all that remarkable since I have seen the AI do this in past play through a where it disproportionately favors defending Leningrad to the exclusion of everything else.

That’s more or less what I was thinking (I.e. it was support units, hq staff and air personnel but if it’s only 800k then that’s still not enough to explain the difference between the reported strength and what’s on the map, since 1.35 - .8 = 550k still unaccounted for though it could just be more of those same types of units (hqs, air, SU)



Karri -> RE: how is manpower distributed (non-combat vs combat) (11/9/2019 3:50:23 PM)

You can trun the AI off from the settings and just have a look through the OOB through the commanders report.



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