Some Air Combat Questions (Full Version)

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Michael T -> Some Air Combat Questions (11/10/2019 11:47:53 PM)

Air Units set to Full Support that have remaining OP points do not always intercept or fly ground support in the opponents turn.

So what is the check process to fly the mission? Is it effectiveness or experience or both or something else?




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 12:41:37 AM)

There is an internal check on an air unit's overall effectiveness. if they are too weak and ineffective they don't fly.

It might not be noticeable if say your air unit was at 70% then got really unlucky in an Air to Air combat and it got nailed bad on your turn. You were watching. Then on the enemy turn it intercepted once and got hammered again. Well if it is too low it won't fly.

If airplanes start vanishing from intercepting players would be upset.



Michael T -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 1:21:19 AM)

So it's some derived number that a random number has to roll under. This is what I figured.

That's fine. However I would like to know the factors in the derived number and their relative weight.

Perhaps its simply (Strength + Effectiveness + Experience)/3 or some such.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 3:37:30 AM)

I think if under 50% strength or 40% effectiveness. Something like that.



Michael T -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 6:25:17 AM)

I have plenty of a/c that won't fly ground support or escort or intercept at above 40% effectiveness (even 60 or 70%). It is a die roll as well or just some coded number they have to be above?



AlbertN -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 9:26:50 AM)

I experienced the same - good that I am not the only one in the boat.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 1:28:25 PM)

Coded not random.



Michael T -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 7:40:29 PM)

Ok coded. It would be nice to know what the numbers actually are.



Essro -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/11/2019 7:51:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

There is an internal check on an air unit's overall effectiveness. if they are too weak and ineffective they don't fly.

It might not be noticeable if say your air unit was at 70% then got really unlucky in an Air to Air combat and it got nailed bad on your turn. You were watching. Then on the enemy turn it intercepted once and got hammered again. Well if it is too low it won't fly.

If airplanes start vanishing from intercepting players would be upset.



But yet I can order my bombers to fly at 1%?

This explains why so many bomber runs get through. Players probably aren't setting such restrictions for their own bombers I suspect. So, lots of bombers "get through" albeit less effective on their run, but the appearance is that they "got through" to the target.

That's what the player sees. Whether the outcome is historical is another question.

The fact that this models the notoriously under performing Luftwaffe is somewhat ironic but probably unintentional. Grosser Schlag indeed.






AlvaroSousa -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 12:13:53 AM)

Effectiveness > 60% which means the air unit will end with ~45-50% after interception
Strength > 45% of max

Both must be met to fly an escort or intercept mission on your turn or the enemy turn.

But yes if you fly a manual mission you can send your air units to their death. Like bombing land, naval, airfield, production.



Michael T -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 12:40:48 AM)

quote:

Effectiveness > 60% which means the air unit will end with ~45-50% after interception
Strength > 45% of max


This info is gold. And to be honest should have been in the manual.

But for some missions I have found the requirements are much lower.



MOS96B2P -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 2:18:12 AM)

So, for a friendly airplane to fly a support mission (intercept, etc.) during the opponents turn it must be no lower than 60% effectiveness?



Essro -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 4:55:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Effectiveness > 60% which means the air unit will end with ~45-50% after interception
Strength > 45% of max

Both must be met to fly an escort or intercept mission on your turn or the enemy turn.

But yes if you fly a manual mission you can send your air units to their death. Like bombing land, naval, airfield, production.


Knowing this is a game changer. I was finding the intercept model frustrating to decipher.

While we're on the subject of air combat, I've got a question about air superiority units in general.

1) Do advancements play a role in intercept/escort and/or combat support?

For example, do "fighter-bombers" intercept? Do "fighter-bombers" support combat? Can they be pulled in for escort? Same for the others, can "fighter escorts" intercept? Can "interceptors" escort? etc.

2) Para units are much safer with escort. How can I make 100% sure, they get their escort?

3) Other than the different stats is there any additional difference between ground attack and tac units?

4) Can an air unit be completely destroyed by airfield attack? Or are they like the ground units in this sense?








Majmac -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 6:28:51 AM)

From Essro: do "fighter-bombers" intercept? Do "fighter-bombers" support combat? Can they be pulled in for escort?

Historically, fighter-bombers are effective at bombing, and the fighter part was only to give the crew some confidence they could take on fighters (they performed miserably against fighters). So, I see them only as supporting combat (air artillery) and they may come off lighter against fighter interceptors due to being a bit more nimble than bombers.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Some Air Combat Questions (11/12/2019 10:12:32 AM)

Air units are a mix of units. An air superiority counter has mostly fighters and a few bombers for example.



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