Is my memory playing tricks with me?

Is my memory playing tricks with me? (Full Version)

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RogerJNeilson -> Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/19/2019 9:43:42 PM)
I am sure somewhere I read that the Superfortress, or one variant of it was equipped with radar used for bombing. Have I made this up? Roger

dcpollay -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/19/2019 10:23:31 PM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2X Thinking of this?

pontiouspilot -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/19/2019 11:55:58 PM)
I think they ended up rigging radar for tail gun.

witpqs -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 12:11:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 I am sure somewhere I read that the Superfortress, or one variant of it was equipped with radar used for bombing. Have I made this up? Roger I believe they did have radar, or maybe just a good number of them did. IIRC they used it for inclement weather and night attacks.

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 5:43:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcpollay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2X Thinking of this? Yep that sounds like it. I 'thought' that this would be listed on the plane data but isn't. Thank you. Roger

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 5:50:26 AM)
By January 1945, most of the 509th Group had moved to Cuba for two months as part of a plan to train the unit as a completely self-sustaining entity capable of moving by itself over a long distance. There, crews were also able to practice radar bombing over water areas as preparation for the eventual move to the Pacific. Craig, William. The Fall of Japan: The Final Weeks of World War II in the Pacific . Open Road Media. Kindle Edition. The nightmare intensified as the plane came near Nagasaki. The two-tenths cloud cover reported by the weather plane at 7:48 A.M. had changed by now to an apparent nine-tenths. In the past three hours a front had moved in across the East China Sea and nearly blanketed the city. Sweeney called for Ashworth and came right to the point: “We have enough gas for one pass over Nagasaki. Just one pass. Otherwise we won’t make it to Okinawa. How about dropping it by radar?” It was a question Ashworth had been dreading. He was under explicit orders from Washington not to unleash the bomb unless the bombardier could actually see the target through the cross hairs. Because of that directive, Kermit Beahan had three times refrained from dropping the Fat Man over Kokura. Now Chuck Sweeney was mentioning the unmentionable. Ashworth hesitated, then said firmly, “No.” Sweeney kept talking. “I’ll guarantee we come within a thousand feet of the target, and that’s better than dropping it in the ocean. I’m sure the radar will work right.” Craig, William. The Fall of Japan: The Final Weeks of World War II in the Pacific . Open Road Media. Kindle Edition. Van Pelt and Buckley went to work on the radar. Nagasaki already showed on the scope as a light blue center surrounded by a darker background, with the water and the mountains around the city showing still darker. It was a difficult area to track and pinpoint. They asked Ashworth to verify their reading. He checked the scope and confirmed that it was, in fact, the outline of Nagasaki. Craig, William. The Fall of Japan: The Final Weeks of World War II in the Pacific . Open Road Media. Kindle Edition. Ok so these were specifically about the A-bomb planes, but the references don't suggest these were specifically installed into these for the specific mission.... Roger

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 6:52:54 AM)
From what I recall reading, B-29s had a fairly primitive ground radar installed (by today's standards). I always figured radar in PV-1s, PBYs, Liberators, etc. made a difference in naval patrol but nothing else. Does anyone know what aircraft radar truly does in this game? I don't have a manual handy. Cheers, CB

Barb -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 9:51:31 AM)
Naval Search radars aboard planes - increases chance of detection and raises DL of the target TF/Ship (applicable on NavS/ASW mission). Air Interception radars aboard planes - increases chance of finding and attacking target during the night/adverse weather conditions (applicable to NFs) No ground targeting radar is in use within game.

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 10:35:21 AM)
Interesting. I ask not so much because of the accuracy or otherwise of it in bombing a specific target but more about the ability to use the radar to confirm the location on which to unload the bombloads of hundreds of B29s..... Its more of an ethical question than a game mechanics thing. To try and put in in context I would not expect to use hordes of B29s to try and bomb a single BB in some hidden anchorage (Tirpitz comes closest and Bomber Command tried and failed with that) but say you have a harbour with lets say 500 vessels. The radar if installed should give you a pretty good ground signature to locate the harbour and the alignment of your bomb run vis as vis the topography to drop your bombs and expect to cause a bit of damage amongst all those vessels? Roger

BBfanboy -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 2:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 Interesting. I ask not so much because of the accuracy or otherwise of it in bombing a specific target but more about the ability to use the radar to confirm the location on which to unload the bombloads of hundreds of B29s..... Its more of an ethical question than a game mechanics thing. To try and put in in context I would not expect to use hordes of B29s to try and bomb a single BB in some hidden anchorage (Tirpitz comes closest and Bomber Command tried and failed with that) but say you have a harbour with lets say 500 vessels. The radar if installed should give you a pretty good ground signature to locate the harbour and the alignment of your bomb run vis as vis the topography to drop your bombs and expect to cause a bit of damage amongst all those vessels? Roger Not sure how you consider Bomber Command failed when they first crippled and then sank the Tirpitz with Tallboy bombs. As for the 500 ships, at anchor they would have multiple ship-lengths between them so they could swing on the hook. Carpet bombing the mass of ships would get some random hits but would kill more fish than anything else. That late in the war the Japanese would be grateful for the dead fish protein!

obvert -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 4:17:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 Interesting. I ask not so much because of the accuracy or otherwise of it in bombing a specific target but more about the ability to use the radar to confirm the location on which to unload the bombloads of hundreds of B29s..... Its more of an ethical question than a game mechanics thing. To try and put in in context I would not expect to use hordes of B29s to try and bomb a single BB in some hidden anchorage (Tirpitz comes closest and Bomber Command tried and failed with that) but say you have a harbour with lets say 500 vessels. The radar if installed should give you a pretty good ground signature to locate the harbour and the alignment of your bomb run vis as vis the topography to drop your bombs and expect to cause a bit of damage amongst all those vessels? Roger Not sure how you consider Bomber Command failed when they first crippled and then sank the Tirpitz with Tallboy bombs. As for the 500 ships, at anchor they would have multiple ship-lengths between them so they could swing on the hook. Carpet bombing the mass of ships would get some random hits but would kill more fish than anything else. That late in the war the Japanese would be grateful for the dead fish protein! Ok, maybe in actual combat, but in this game if a group fo 50 B-29s hits a port EVERY ship will be hit.

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/20/2019 6:06:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 Interesting. I ask not so much because of the accuracy or otherwise of it in bombing a specific target but more about the ability to use the radar to confirm the location on which to unload the bombloads of hundreds of B29s..... Its more of an ethical question than a game mechanics thing. To try and put in in context I would not expect to use hordes of B29s to try and bomb a single BB in some hidden anchorage (Tirpitz comes closest and Bomber Command tried and failed with that) but say you have a harbour with lets say 500 vessels. The radar if installed should give you a pretty good ground signature to locate the harbour and the alignment of your bomb run vis as vis the topography to drop your bombs and expect to cause a bit of damage amongst all those vessels? Roger Not sure how you consider Bomber Command failed when they first crippled and then sank the Tirpitz with Tallboy bombs. As for the 500 ships, at anchor they would have multiple ship-lengths between them so they could swing on the hook. Carpet bombing the mass of ships would get some random hits but would kill more fish than anything else. That late in the war the Japanese would be grateful for the dead fish protein! Yep Bomber Command finally got her, but check how many attempts they made.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Allied_attacks_on_the_German_battleship_Tirpitz I have always tended to rationalise the port hits on shipping as being explosion damage as the blast effects of bombs was certainly not factored into the design of most ships..... note I say most ships. I do tend to think that very few ports actually have capacity for that number of ships, but thats just my feeling..... Roger Roger

Alfred -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/21/2019 10:27:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 Interesting. I ask not so much because of the accuracy or otherwise of it in bombing a specific target but more about the ability to use the radar to confirm the location on which to unload the bombloads of hundreds of B29s..... Its more of an ethical question than a game mechanics thing. To try and put in in context I would not expect to use hordes of B29s to try and bomb a single BB in some hidden anchorage (Tirpitz comes closest and Bomber Command tried and failed with that) but say you have a harbour with lets say 500 vessels. The radar if installed should give you a pretty good ground signature to locate the harbour and the alignment of your bomb run vis as vis the topography to drop your bombs and expect to cause a bit of damage amongst all those vessels? Roger Air radar helps bombers tasked with a night operation to coordinate better. Alfred

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Is my memory playing tricks with me? (11/21/2019 2:42:32 PM)
Thank you Alfred, succinct and to the point as always Roger

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