Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (Full Version)

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s2tanker -> Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 1:56:08 PM)

Playing as Japan using Update v1.01.26a. It's April 1943.

Shwebo was occupied by an Allied battalion. I did an airborne assault with supporting aircraft from 4 different bases, all of which had non-storm weather conditions. All unit morale was high.

The drop went off as ordered, but none of the supporting air missions ran. Absent the 2 squadrons of bombers I had assigned, the target was not softened up and the attack failed at 1:1 odds.

The following turn I dropped the remainder of the unit, again assigning air units to support. Again, no support. The remainder of the unit dropped, but the Allies also airlifted reinforcements into the city. Oddly, there was no Allied air support either, though I was expecting some.

It seems to be a bug. The weather in the target hex was fine, else how could the airdrop occur?



btd64 -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:01:38 PM)

Post a screenshot of the air units involved....GP



btd64 -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:02:18 PM)

And the base....GP



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:39:31 PM)

Here are the aircraft at the base that were assigned to run the mission the day after the mission.

The base has more than 20,000 supply and has plenty of air support crews. The two bomber units were assigned to attack at 3,000 feet. They have good and aggressive leaders. Their morale was fine.

[image]local://upfiles/46113/486B4D2522584F28843B7FB929EC370D.jpg[/image]



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:40:56 PM)

Here's a shot of one of three supporting Tojo air sweeps over Shwebo, showing that the conditions are heavy cloud. This was the turn of the air drop.

[image]local://upfiles/46113/837D4FC7445C440D9BDAECC7A5837F01.jpg[/image]



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:44:05 PM)

Here's the battle at Shwebo that likely would have been successful if one of the two assigned bomber units performed their mission. The same thing happened the following turn with the weather over Shwebo being clear skies and the transport mission running successfully. In that turn, none of the supporting air missions from 4 different bases ran. Of note, neither did the Allies' run, except for their air drop (I don't know if they assigned any, but I expected a heavy response).

[image]local://upfiles/46113/F0E28B911D9A4694960FA8D5491989ED.jpg[/image]



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 2:50:06 PM)

Further, they are assigned to the 22nd Air Flotilla which is in Rangoon.



Alfred -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:06:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: s2tanker

Here are the aircraft at the base that were assigned to run the mission the day after the mission.

The base has more than 20,000 supply and has plenty of air support crews. The two bomber units were assigned to attack at 3,000 feet. They have good and aggressive leaders. Their morale was fine.

[image]local://upfiles/46113/486B4D2522584F28843B7FB929EC370D.jpg[/image]


Not a single unit tasked to escort.

Since when do you expect bomber units to fly into enemy CAP without escorts. You want to get the benefit of sweeping, suffer the consequences.

Alfred



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:08:51 PM)

It was a surprise attack. No enemy aircraft were patrolling the area. 7 squadrons were assigned to sweep. I recall 3 of those that swept.



btd64 -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:10:06 PM)

Heavy clouds could be the problem....GP



btd64 -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:11:15 PM)

What is the range settings for the aircraft?....GP



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:12:56 PM)

The Helens were assigned to Shwebo, range of 9, assigned a range of 9.



s2tanker -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:13:38 PM)

Perhaps, though the following turn, the skies over Shwebo were clear and no bombing missions were run then either.



Kull -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/22/2019 3:26:25 PM)

I pulled up one of my v1.8.11.26b AI-AI test games (Andy's new Scen 1) and set a 3/5/42 turn as Japan human. Opening the game, there was a single Betty unit in range of Shwebo (based at Tavoy). I then moved a Sally unit to Moulmein and another Betty to Rahang, and set each to bomb Shwebo Ground units at 7K and 3K respectively. All were unescorted. Ran the turn and all except the Rahang Betty made their assaults (see attachment) despite "Heavy Cloud" and no intel of any kind on the target (didn't even know if there was a ground unit there). Turns out Rahang had very little supply (yellow exclamation), so that's probably the reason that Betty did not participate.

Anyway, Shwebo is not "bugged" against Ground air assaults. What you saw is either random or the bomber units were making decisions based on some other factors.

[image]local://upfiles/25668/7B118EF253D1441694D319B3752CD250.jpg[/image]



Lokasenna -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/23/2019 4:16:37 AM)

The bombers didn't fly because:

1) Suspected or detected enemy CAP or LRCAP (including "leaky" CAP/LRCAP)

2) Lack of Escorts. Not Sweeps - Escorts. You need Escort mission to go with the bombers into contested airspace, else the bombers have a high likelihood not to fly (except against CVs and BBs)



HansBolter -> RE: Is there an issue with Shwebo and air strikes? (11/23/2019 8:12:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: s2tanker

It was a surprise attack. No enemy aircraft were patrolling the area. 7 squadrons were assigned to sweep. I recall 3 of those that swept.


If you were confident there were no enemy fighters patrolling that hex, then you didn't need any sweeps and every last aircraft assigned to sweep was wasted.

If you suspected there might be CAP or LRCAP then escorting your bombers would have been the best way to maximize the chances for a bomber sortie.

ONLY if you suspect such heavy CAP that your escorting fighters will be chewed up is a sweep warranted.

You wasted your fighters on an apparently useless mission and why on earth would you sweep at 9k feet sacrificing any altitude bonus to the prospective enemy?

I also don't believe you could have counted on a bombing mission turning the tide of the land battle. Maybe yes, maybe no.



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