CAP trap? (Full Version)

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HvMoltke -> CAP trap? (11/23/2019 9:51:34 AM)

Another newbie question.
What exactly is a CAP trap, what are the suitable fighter and what are the settings?
Help from the Pros would be nice.
Hellmuth



Sardaukar -> RE: CAP trap? (11/23/2019 10:45:16 AM)

You might refer to multi-layered CAP where different squadrons in base are set to different altitudes.

That often results attacker to bounce lower CAP and been themselves bounced by higher cap.

Useful especially when you have fighters in base with different best MVR band, but can be used anytime. One example is P-40s at 20k and P-39s at 15k. Check your plane Maneuver bands from plane info.

This is one remedy if opponent uses high-altitude fighter sweeps.



Trugrit -> RE: CAP trap? (11/23/2019 11:23:57 AM)


There are long range patrol planes and heavy bombers in the game that can carry torpedoes.
This is very effective against naval targets. Good at long range so they are well beyond friendly
fighter escort if they are set up that way.

When you set them to naval attack you don’t get a choice of naval targets.
They pick their own naval targets.

So the opposing player forms up a one ship task force with remain on station orders
at a near by port that has a lot of fighters on cap.

The enemy planes (without escorts) go after the single ship task force and get slaughtered.

I don’t use cargo ships to bait the trap because I consider that to be gamey.

I will use a destroyer task force. Using destroyers is fine, they are warships.
That is their job. They have the weapons and speed needed for combat.

You can use destroyers on picket duty as well with the same type of results.




GetAssista -> RE: CAP trap? (11/23/2019 12:08:41 PM)

"CAP trap" is a general term for suddenly having CAP where your opponent does not expect it.
Can be a deliberate baiting like Trugrit described. Can be a sudden CAP over a hex that your opponent bombed during previous turns. Any fighter good on CAP will do. Those with longer range are easier to use in the role since they can fly from your other bases and LRCAP a multitude of possible targets in the vicinity.



BBfanboy -> RE: CAP trap? (11/23/2019 10:56:09 PM)

A word of caution about flying in planes to set up a CAP trap - transferring between bases always causes some fatigue to both planes and pilots. With that fatigue at the outset, you might get two good days of intense CAP patrol over the base and then need to withdraw them for recovery of fatigue and airframe upkeep. So if you set up a CAP trap and the enemy does not show up in the fist couple of days, check your plane and pilot fatigue before deciding to keep the trap going for a third or fourth day.
Any fatigue (pilot or plane) over 10 seems to start reducing effectiveness and any fatigue near 20 causes significant drop in performance, IMO.



Lokasenna -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 3:04:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

A word of caution about flying in planes to set up a CAP trap - transferring between bases always causes some fatigue to both planes and pilots. With that fatigue at the outset, you might get two good days of intense CAP patrol over the base and then need to withdraw them for recovery of fatigue and airframe upkeep. So if you set up a CAP trap and the enemy does not show up in the fist couple of days, check your plane and pilot fatigue before deciding to keep the trap going for a third or fourth day.
Any fatigue (pilot or plane) over 10 seems to start reducing effectiveness and any fatigue near 20 causes significant drop in performance, IMO.


Not much, though. Even flying 90% CAP will produce single digit levels of fatigue, if range is at 0 and altitude isn't super high.

The transfer distances of most fighters will maybe bump even a unit that is being used in such a fashion to high-10s fatigue, maybe 20-22 at the very most. Which is still plenty fine for doing at least 1 day of CAP/LRCAP.



HansBolter -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 7:19:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

A word of caution about flying in planes to set up a CAP trap - transferring between bases always causes some fatigue to both planes and pilots. With that fatigue at the outset, you might get two good days of intense CAP patrol over the base and then need to withdraw them for recovery of fatigue and airframe upkeep. So if you set up a CAP trap and the enemy does not show up in the fist couple of days, check your plane and pilot fatigue before deciding to keep the trap going for a third or fourth day.
Any fatigue (pilot or plane) over 10 seems to start reducing effectiveness and any fatigue near 20 causes significant drop in performance, IMO.


Not much, though. Even flying 90% CAP will produce single digit levels of fatigue, if range is at 0 and altitude isn't super high.

The transfer distances of most fighters will maybe bump even a unit that is being used in such a fashion to high-10s fatigue, maybe 20-22 at the very most. Which is still plenty fine for doing at least 1 day of CAP/LRCAP.



Yea, they really watered down the fatigue effect of executing a transfer.

In Uncommon Valor you had to stand your pilots down for at least a day after executing a transfer from Townsville to Port Moresby.



Sardaukar -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 12:51:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

A word of caution about flying in planes to set up a CAP trap - transferring between bases always causes some fatigue to both planes and pilots. With that fatigue at the outset, you might get two good days of intense CAP patrol over the base and then need to withdraw them for recovery of fatigue and airframe upkeep. So if you set up a CAP trap and the enemy does not show up in the fist couple of days, check your plane and pilot fatigue before deciding to keep the trap going for a third or fourth day.
Any fatigue (pilot or plane) over 10 seems to start reducing effectiveness and any fatigue near 20 causes significant drop in performance, IMO.


Not much, though. Even flying 90% CAP will produce single digit levels of fatigue, if range is at 0 and altitude isn't super high.

The transfer distances of most fighters will maybe bump even a unit that is being used in such a fashion to high-10s fatigue, maybe 20-22 at the very most. Which is still plenty fine for doing at least 1 day of CAP/LRCAP.



Yea, they really watered down the fatigue effect of executing a transfer.

In Uncommon Valor you had to stand your pilots down for at least a day after executing a transfer from Townsville to Port Moresby.


I agree.

Long-distance transit should generate higher fatigue. Same with flying CAP/Sweeping etc. at altitudes requiring use of oxygen mask, not super-high fatigue, but higher than now.



HvMoltke -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 7:18:57 PM)

Thanx for the in depth discussion of this common tool.
Seems there are always several aspects of such a simple thing like air war.



Markko -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 8:38:59 PM)

Smiling. :)
Had the same reaction. It sounds like if anyone writes the definitive, unabridged dictionary of witpae language, then "Cap Trap" is going to be one of those entries with definition 1., then 2., then 3., etc.

Thanks everyone for the info. I'm getting back into witpae after an absence, so I'm reading the forums looking just for such nuggets as these. :)



John 3rd -> RE: CAP trap? (11/24/2019 9:44:05 PM)

Setting up a successful CAP TRAP can really cause a serious bellyache with your opponent and provide you with a day's bragging rights!



fcooke -> RE: CAP trap? (11/25/2019 9:46:25 AM)

Not so much a CAP trap but in a PBEM years ago my Japan opp was bombing Balipaken (sp?) every day with Netties without escort, because what's to fear from the Dutch in Feb 42? But I had pulled back all the fighters, combined units and trained. And built up the Bali airfield. So, one a nice clear day I sent all the fighters to Bali and the nearby base and set 100% CAP. The Dutch had a field day, taking out about 70 Netties. My opp was devastated, but realized he had been sloppy. It was great for exp levels, and the Allied navies were now allowed to be a bit more aggressive.

And he was bombing the troops. Not sure why. They sure could not stop any real force.

But the game constantly reminds you to not make assumptions, and not rely on what you think the enemy will do, but can do.



ITAKLinus -> RE: CAP trap? (11/25/2019 12:43:57 PM)

I see three possible CAP traps.

Maybe my definitions are wrong, but it's what in my twisted mind I use to define "CAP traps".

1 - The Old Classic CAP Trap. The enemy is bombing position-xy and you send a bunch of fighters there to murder his bombers. Sometimes is useful also against sweeps even if I see less returns on that.

2 - The LRCAP Variation. You basically do not respond to enemy harrassing you on position-xy, but at a certain point you unleash your fighters in a LRCAP to kill enemy's stuff. As per every LRCAP, ops are higher and returns lower than pure CAP. On the other hand, I prefer this variation for places like China, as Allied player, where many bases have no railroads.

3 - Leaking CAP Trap. Basically, here you have your sweet fighters in CAP on a base. They are, supposedly, at range=0. At certain point you put a higher range, say range=1, to intercept enemy attacks on a nearby base. It's quite useful even if the leaking CAP is low in numbers and good radars should be a must. It' extremely situational, as you generally would prefer to directly LRCAP instead of relying on the weark leaking CAP.




As a general rule: the more an enemy gets lazy in his aerial patterns, the more there is space for CAP traps. Individually, as allied player, I find its biggest use in China where it has strong strategic implications: the Japanese isn't allowed to run wild and has to keep a fair force of fighter in the theater.
In other areas, it's highly situational. For example: as Japanese player, it's difficoult sometimes to set up a proper CAP trap since the 4Es will tear apart your weak fighters more than in a normal situation.
However, I use it a lot. Especially in areas such as Salomons&co, where the Allied player starts contant bombings fairly early. Same with Burma.


Suitable planes: ideally, if you go for the variations 1. and 2., a plane with decent range (for LRCAP) and decent SR (=1) for the 1. since the day after your CAP trap the enemy will probably trash the AF and any a/c which has been damaged will be trashed as well.






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