France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (Full Version)

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1775Cerberus -> France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 1:16:26 AM)

So I used a "Serbia First" strategy. Six IG Corps go to the Adriatic to help the AH against Serbia. Serbia falls in 9 months along with Montenegro and Albania. In this strategy Belgium is not invaded by the IG. England dosent join the war till Dec of 14. The Eastern front is active but neither side can gain an advantage.

In the spring / Summer of 15 the French declare war against Belgium. After capturing most of Belgium the French declare war against the Netherlands. Both very historical possibilities as the national archives of France have contingency plans for moves through each country to flank any IG attack on France.

My question is that Both France and England had messages that the "Public was dismayed at the DOW on 'XYZ country'. Do they in fact suffer a NM loss for declaring war on Belgium and /or the Netherlands?



Tanaka -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 6:16:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1775Cerberus

So I used a "Serbia First" strategy. Six IG Corps go to the Adriatic to help the AH against Serbia. Serbia falls in 9 months along with Montenegro and Albania. In this strategy Belgium is not invaded by the IG. England dosent join the war till Dec of 14. The Eastern front is active but neither side can gain an advantage.

In the spring / Summer of 15 the French declare war against Belgium. After capturing most of Belgium the French declare war against the Netherlands. Both very historical possibilities as the national archives of France have contingency plans for moves through each country to flank any IG attack on France.

My question is that Both France and England had messages that the "Public was dismayed at the DOW on 'XYZ country'. Do they in fact suffer a NM loss for declaring war on Belgium and /or the Netherlands?


Yes as they should.



Simulacra53 -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 6:42:03 AM)

Sneaky AI!
[:D]

With the agreement between Britain and Belgium, why would France need to declare war on Belgium?
Britain guaranteed Belgian neutrality - while in fact regarding Belgium as its main entry point into European continent in case of war.
Belgium was an integral part of British continental war plans and as such not really neutral, but allied to Britain by treaty and planning.

As a French contingency plan it may have been available, but the (secret) treaty system makes this scenario highly unlikely.
A French invasion of Belgium would have resulted in a crisis within the Entente.
Even less likely to happen AFTER a British entry into the war.

Although neutral The Netherlands was sympathetic towards Germany and continued to be a very important trading partner.
Invading NL would have made more strategic sense as it would close an important trade route and widen the frontage considerably.

Yes I know it is a game.
I’m just curious how this scenario kicks in.



BillRunacre -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 9:44:10 AM)

I have read differing things about British thoughts on Belgium because while their position was to maintain Belgian integrity, that was more in response to other countries actions, i.e. they wouldn't consider their own move into Belgium to be at odds with this, because they would see themselves as doing it for the right reasons.

However, as has been noticed, there is an NM penalty for the Entente if they attack countries like Belgium and the Netherlands, and not only that, but diplomatic repercussions as the US government would not appreciate it.

It is only likely to happen if the Entente haven't made any headway into Germany along the Franco-German border, as a way of widening the front and hopefully breaking into northern Germany that way.

It's not a risk free strategy, nor as has been noted one without cost, but it is intended to help keep the Central Powers on their toes.



Xsillione -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 10:57:22 AM)

The British defense of Belgium was mostly because it made any war between France and Germany very hard for both side. Since after the German DOW the UK was on French side (actively or not), they only interested in Belgium neutrality, if it is a good reason to go against Germany, and don't care for it, if it helps France. Of course, the population may or may not agree with this type of power politics, so NM loss is a reasonable solution for the cost of this action, but the action is quite valid, esp if the Germans went a Serbia or Russia first deployment, and the western front is weak and vulnerable for a surprise walk in the Ardennes. Netherland is even more important, since it helps the Germans greatly with middle man trading and removing it is quite important.



1775Cerberus -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 3:28:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

Sneaky AI!
[:D]
Yes I know it is a game.
I’m just curious how this scenario kicks in.


Pretty much as Bill has said. The IG line ran along the border in the south through the mountains, in front of Nancy up through the Argonne in front of Verdun. A grand total of six or so hexes of French territory held by the IG. I had kept a reserve opposite Belgium, but the AI French/ British pushed through Belgium in one turn leaving the IG only able to relieve Liege and occupy the Ardennes before Belgium surrendered.

The IG expedition sent to the Adriatic was able to reposition to Munich/Alps to stop an Italian drive which had overrun the AH defensive garrison in Verona. The AH were able to reposition to Trieste/north to block the Italian thrust beyond the border hexes. This leaves the Bulgarians, who entered as vultures on the turn that Serbia surrendered, and one AH Army, (four Corps), to deal with Salonika/ Romanian entry. Meanwhile in the East its very much Ali-Fraser with neither side backing down.

The invasion of the Netherlands may very well be the straw that breaks the back of the IG. The Army of the Netherlands is of a nice size. The initial attack into the Netherlands stumbled because of this. Now the IG are stretched thin and an addition of one more front will lead to real issues.

To say I am tickled by these moves by the AI would be correct. These AI moves are by possibility historically correct and make a lot of sense. The reaction of the populace and the NM hit is also a very nice touch. The loss of anti-German propaganda and the graying of the white hat by attacking neutrals shows forethought by the designers to try to account for players like me going, " I wonder how this works?"

I hope this helps understanding how this comes about.



Simulacra53 -> RE: France invades Belgium and the Netherlands. (12/8/2019 4:55:32 PM)

Thanks for the scenario rundown.
Agree it is fun to have these plausible alternative scenarios.



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