RE: Not Responding (Full Version)

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Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 12:48:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1


I guess that most of the guys here play with no sound so that avoided massive complains from the old timers.


Or, many of them do play with sound, but the did a backup of the MyGames TOAW folder so they avoided the problem.

And Shadrach, now I have officially sorted it out [:)]


Just did a regular patch and nothing else. No sound problems at all. Here are the items that deal with files.

BUG FIXES:
8. Open/Save operations for OOB, Map, and Unit objects fixed.
14. File Open should prefer Document folder over Program Files folder.
15. Graphics search now includes Program File/Graphics Override folder.
20. “New Game” button will find the latest scenario version to run from multiple directories.




Of course all these problems started with the Steam release, as if we didn't have already overworked our code guy [:D]


Actually we have no code guy so....

And when I talk about patching it's the Matrix version. The sound problem has existed since TOAWIV was released which was pre Steam. I guess if you need a whipping boy you can say I did it. It would be equally as accurate. [:D]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 7:37:35 AM)

Question. Does either the installation program, or the first execution of TOAWIV, create an installation log file? If so, where is/are these file(s) located?

Cheers



zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 7:51:30 AM)

In the Windows documents folder, more specifically at:

...\Documents\My Games\The Operational Art of War IV

unless you have a 3rd party app or program installed that stops it, installing and admin should overrule this and let it be written


[image]local://upfiles/43185/EE40656E4A5A4C78A5CD88DA861FDDDE.jpg[/image]

if you wish to delete this folder at any time, because of errors or wrong settings etc, just delete it without the game running, then once you start the game, the game will remake the folders once in a battle and the game has started, this one shown is from the steam install of the game, i deleted the folder because i did 3 test installs of the game the previous day and didn't want anything left over, so just let steam make a new one, well the game tbh, as steam is just the platform it's run on, the game does it for you



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 12:55:16 PM)

zakblood, thank you. Trying a run with TOAWIV .40 now after having renamed the folder in the user files. It is in "busy" mode, but created the new folder. I have it running with admin privileges, so I'll see if the full scenario content is created this time.

Cheers



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 1:33:38 PM)

So now I'm confused again. TOAW IV recreated the "The Operational Art of War IV" folder in my user games area and created a Scenarios folder under it. But the scenarios folder is empty. No sub-folders, no scenario files. Program was running with admin privileges.

Cheers



Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 2:36:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

So now I'm confused again. TOAW IV recreated the "The Operational Art of War IV" folder in my user games area and created a Scenarios folder under it. But the scenarios folder is empty. No sub-folders, no scenario files. Program was running with admin privileges.

Cheers


It has done this since .20 on fresh install.



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 2:41:56 PM)

Lobster,

Okay. So where should the latest scenarios be found? In the system X86 area where the executables are?

Cheers



Curtis Lemay -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 2:52:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Lobster,

Okay. So where should the latest scenarios be found? In the system X86 area where the executables are?

Cheers

Steam directory.



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 2:54:24 PM)

Bob,

Sorry, I guess I'm really confused today. I don't have the steam version. Would I have this directory, and where should it be located?

Cheers



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:04:42 PM)

Okay. At this point, I am uninstalling TOAWIV. Then I will put on the old .11 version giving the installer admin privileges. Following that, I will run the .40 update using admin privileges, and see if I have the latest stock scenarios.

Cheers



Meyer1 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:11:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Lobster,

Okay. So where should the latest scenarios be found? In the system X86 area where the executables are?

Cheers


Yes. there's a scenario folder there, you could copy it to your empty scenario folder in your user PC folder.



Curtis Lemay -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:21:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Bob,

Sorry, I guess I'm really confused today. I don't have the steam version. Would I have this directory, and where should it be located?

Cheers


Mine is here:


[image]local://upfiles/14086/4108AA1546444D27926B6E57FF47BF2D.jpg[/image]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:30:53 PM)

Thanks Bob.

I've uninstalled. Version .11 installed with no issues.

Now trying to apply the .40 upgrade. A window is on my system saying it is trying to delete a .ogg file. Okay, that seemed hung up, but finally completed.

But:

When I compare the scenarios in my users-games directory, they look like older versions and don't match the sizes shown in Shadrach's listing of what should have been the stock scenario installation.

In my x86 directory (comparable to your steam directory), there are only a few folders and a few scenarios listed there. I feel like I've missed a major step somewhere.

Cheers



Curtis Lemay -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:34:06 PM)

So, you don't have the Steam directory?



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 3:57:50 PM)

Bob,

I do not have a steam directory or installation.

My executables directory is Program Files (x86) > Matrix Games > The Operational Art of War IV

In the Scenarios > WWII - Mediterranean folder, there are only four scenarios listed.

However, in the path Documents > My Games > The Operational Art of War IV > Scenarios > WWII - Mediterranean

... there are many more scenarios listed. I just don't know if they are what I should have as part of the manifest for the .40 upgrade.

Can we check a couple of your scenarios? Here is what I show in the "Documents > My Games" path:

Campaign for North Africa 41-43 v.13.0.sce, size is 999,940 bytes

The Next War 1979.sce, size is 981,946 bytes

If these are current, then maybe I have what I should have and am simply confused.

Thanks and Cheers--

Cheers



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 4:28:43 PM)

Cathar: When you first install the .11 base game, it will plop the scenarios in your Documents\My Games folder. This is how the *old* installer worked, and is the reason why we had to manually do a complete uninstall when we patched to the .20 patch last year.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4564492

You can find an explanation of the reason behind that in the post above. So now after .20 the Documents folder is to be used for *user* scenarios and the default scenarios are in the Programs directory.

For some reason Bob & co keeps insisting on users installing from the .11 base, which will lead to *duplicates* with the old files in Documents when the patch is applied, unless the user manually deletes these first. But apparently this will avoid the issue with missing DOC and BMP files which for some weird reasons now need to be in the Documents folder. Yeah, don't ask...

So I'd recommend you go from the *base* files available on the Members area and nothing else. These are the files Matrix have made available to us, and if they don't work, it's a clear Support issue.

> In the Scenarios > WWII - Mediterranean folder, there are only four scenarios listed.

Something is definitely wrong, as all the default scenes should be located there (I have 38 SCE files there).

My files under Programs\Scenarios for comparison:
Campaign for North Africa 41-43 v.13.0.sce, 470,680 bytes, modified 1. ‎oktober ‎2018, ‏‎17:28:50
The Next War 1979.sce, 438,671 bytes, modified 1. ‎oktober ‎2018, ‏‎17:07:32

I doubt installing as Administrator makes any difference. If you get Windows' User Access Control dialog when running the installer - if so that's the same thing as running as Admin.



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 4:45:08 PM)

quote:

So I'd recommend you go from the *base* files available on the Members area and nothing else. These are the files Matrix have made available to us, and if they don't work, it's a clear Support issue.


Shadrach,

Thanks for the idea.

I went to "my page" and it only shows the manual, the .20 install, and the .40 patch. I don't see anything like a "base files" download option?

I have, from the .11 installation, all of the scenarios, but I'm not sure if they're the most recent "stock" versions.

An example of this confusion is the size you show for Bob's scenarios ... mine are both over 900K. "The Next War" shows a creation date of November 8, 2017 ... so it is both bigger and older than what your list depicts.

The .40's "Hypothetical Studies" folder is empty. And was it supposed to create the "Custom Graphics" folder? That isn't there.

I can recreate what is missing, but as I indicated, I may have older versions.

This is weird.

I am beginning to think it would be a good idea for someone to post a series of .zip files with the latest stock scenarios that are supposed to come with the .40 upgrade.

Cheers



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:08:13 PM)

Cathar:

> I went to "my page" and it only shows the manual, the .20 install, and the .40 patch. I don't see anything like a "base files" download option?

The .20 is the base game. "TheOperationalArtofWar4-SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20.exe" is 830MB and will install from scratch. Then patch to .40 before running for the first time. Also clear out the Programs and Documents TOAW4 directories first to be sure.

> I am beginning to think it would be a good idea for someone to post a series of .zip files with the latest stock scenarios that are supposed to come with the .40 upgrade.

I could do that. But I'm not sure it would be allowed. I could PM you a link though. But try the base .20 and patch to .40 first [;)]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:11:34 PM)

Shadrach,

Okay, I'll try the .20 install followed by .40 patch -- tomorrow. Burnt out at this point and don't want to introduce any errors into the process. Thanks again!

Cheers



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:13:49 PM)

Shadrach, one more question. When I install the .20 version, will my product key for the original .11 version I purchased work? I think it should, but am not sure.

Cheers



Curtis Lemay -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:22:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Bob,

I do not have a steam directory or installation.

My executables directory is Program Files (x86) > Matrix Games > The Operational Art of War IV

In the Scenarios > WWII - Mediterranean folder, there are only four scenarios listed.

However, in the path Documents > My Games > The Operational Art of War IV > Scenarios > WWII - Mediterranean

... there are many more scenarios listed. I just don't know if they are what I should have as part of the manifest for the .40 upgrade.

Can we check a couple of your scenarios? Here is what I show in the "Documents > My Games" path:

Campaign for North Africa 41-43 v.13.0.sce, size is 999,940 bytes

The Next War 1979.sce, size is 981,946 bytes

If these are current, then maybe I have what I should have and am simply confused.

Thanks and Cheers--

Cheers

Those are correct, but I haven't updated them since the initial launch.

You can get a Steam Key with your Matrix purchase (I forget how, but it's documented somewhere).

Check and see if you have my new Chickamauga 1863 scenario.



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:30:21 PM)

Cathar,
your serial will be valid. It should also be listed on the Members page - along with a Steam key [;)]

[image]https://i.imgur.com/mw5ENbj.png[/image]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/1/2020 5:36:17 PM)

Right, I see a serial key. Steam shows "Get your key", but if I understand, a Steam installation is optional. So I'll give the .20 install followed by the .40 upgrade a try tomorrow. Hopefully that will finally get me upgraded. Thanks for suggestions and ideas.

Cheers



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 5:30:28 AM)

Shadrach,

Did the .20 install followed by .40 patch today. Scenario manifest appears complete and no 30 minute delay upon first start of the game. I'll actually play the game a bit to see if it is stable, but this installation appears complete.

Thanks and Cheers--



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 7:53:35 AM)

Cathar, that's great to hear![8D]
I hope it works properly, and you're a real trooper for sticking with it through all those installs, must've been frustrating [:)]

So what we know:
- Installing the original .11 base game will place all the scenarios in the Documents folder.
- The .40 patch only contains the most recent updated scenes, NOT the ones updated in .20 a year ago.
- The .40 patch is cumulative in that it contains the fixes from .21 - but not necessarily everything from .20 as well.
- The .20 base install contains *all* default scenes with a timestamp of Oct. 2018 and with changed file-sizes for many of them.
- Updating directly from base .11 to .40 will leave you with only the .40-updated scenes in the Programs folder.
- Updating directly from base .11 to .40 might cause hangs on game start on some system.
- Updating a fully patched and working .21 to .40 will probably work (at least it did for me) - as long as the instructions with the .20 patch release were followed at the time (i.e. full reinstall).

So no idea what actually happens when the game hangs - might be audio stuff, might not, as proved by Cathar. You'd need access to the source to figure out what the game actually does on startup to make it hang, so that's something for the developers to figure out [:'(]

Now I'm starting to wonder what happened to "mamnich24" - I'm guessing we scared them off [:(]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 8:26:56 AM)

quote:

you're a real trooper for sticking with it through all those installs


Yeah, I want a campaign ribbon for this one!

Cheers



jmlima -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 8:56:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Cathar, that's great to hear![8D]
I hope it works properly, and you're a real trooper for sticking with it through all those installs, must've been frustrating [:)]

So what we know:
- Installing the original .11 base game will place all the scenarios in the Documents folder.
- The .40 patch only contains the most recent updated scenes, NOT the ones updated in .20 a year ago.
- The .40 patch is cumulative in that it contains the fixes from .21 - but not necessarily everything from .20 as well.
- The .20 base install contains *all* default scenes with a timestamp of Oct. 2018 and with changed file-sizes for many of them.
- Updating directly from base .11 to .40 will leave you with only the .40-updated scenes in the Programs folder.
- Updating directly from base .11 to .40 might cause hangs on game start on some system.
- Updating a fully patched and working .21 to .40 will probably work (at least it did for me) - as long as the instructions with the .20 patch release were followed at the time (i.e. full reinstall).

So no idea what actually happens when the game hangs - might be audio stuff, might not, as proved by Cathar. You'd need access to the source to figure out what the game actually does on startup to make it hang, so that's something for the developers to figure out [:'(]

Now I'm starting to wonder what happened to "mamnich24" - I'm guessing we scared them off [:(]



Glad this was all properly tested before release.



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 9:00:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

you're a real trooper for sticking with it through all those installs


Yeah, I want a campaign ribbon for this one!

Cheers


Something like these guys? [:D]

[image]https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2016/05/nkextramedals.jpg[/image]

By the way, managed to reproduce it with installing the .11 base first and patching to .40. It's been hanging for 10 minutes now [:D]

It appears to be trying to do a QueryDirectory on MILLIONS of files like this in Documents\My Games:
The Operational Art of War IV\Sound\1588
The Operational Art of War IV\Sound\-2366

The result of these operations is an obvious "NO SUCH FILE" [8|]

Update, been going for over 30 mins now, and ProcessMonitor actually crashed. My Pagefile was about 20GB just from trying to save all these entries. I don't know if it actually ever will finish [:D]



cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 9:37:47 AM)

quote:

It appears to be trying to do a QueryDirectory on MILLIONS of files like this in Documents\My Games:
The Operational Art of War IV\Sound\1588
The Operational Art of War IV\Sound\-2366


Oops. Definitely sounds like the way forward is a .20 install followed by .40 upgrade. Good to see the software behavior could be replicated.

For record -- my installation of .20 and upgrade to .40 was as a normal user, not "as administrator".

Thanks for the investigation.

Cheers,

Cathar1244
OUW (Order of the Upgrade Wars) [:'(]



Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (1/2/2020 9:44:18 AM)

I just tried to copy the old Sounds folder from my backup Documents directory I zipped earlier, and the game starts in seconds.
Removing them again, the game hangs [:D]

Weird thing is, there are no sound (OGG files) in the game Programs directory. So where does it try to get the files from?

EDIT: It looks like it's just the lack of "Main Theme.ogg" that causes the hang. Loss of file handle pointer (would make sense)?
Setting "nosound=Y" in the ini launches the game immediately as well, even with missing sound files, which makes sense.

I'll go back to a working install now [;)]

And I think I'll award myself this one:

[image]https://web.archive.org/web/20190213080158im_/http://c.evilrouters.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/whiskey-tango-foxtrot.png[/image]



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