Unexpected results

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Lawless1 -> Unexpected results (12/29/2019 6:29:55 PM)
Restarted a modified version of Scn#26, IJN forces attacked PH using bombs only, which happens occasionally. What was unexpected in that deck armor on Maryland was stronger than the 800kg bombs. Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 107 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 35 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 32 B5N2 Kate x 117 D3A1 Val x 101 Allied aircraft P-36A Mohawk x 20 P-40B Warhawk x 35 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed by flak B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 22 damaged D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses P-36A Mohawk: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed on ground P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground Allied Ships ARD YFD-2, Bomb hits 1, on fire BB Nevada, Bomb hits 7, on fire BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 8, on fire BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires DMS Zane, Bomb hits 1, on fire PC Tiger, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage BB California, Bomb hits 3, on fire DD Reid, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires BB Arizona, Bomb hits 10, on fire BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3 Here is the unexpected results, 3 800kg hit deck armor with no damaged to the ship. BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires DMS Trevor, Bomb hits 1, on fire AO Ramapo, Bomb hits 1, on fire AG Aries, Bomb hits 1, on fire Allied ground losses: 7 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Airbase hits 26 Runway hits 34 Port hits 8 Port fuel hits 1 Port supply hits 1

Shellshock -> RE: Unexpected results (12/29/2019 6:57:22 PM)
If I recall historically this type of bomb (a converted battleship shell) had a high dud rate, due to weaknesses in the bomb case introduced during the remanufacturing process and poor quality control with the explosive fill. Of those that scored hits at Pearl Harbor, 20% failed to explode and another 40% yielded only low order explosions.

dr.hal -> RE: Unexpected results (12/29/2019 10:49:17 PM)
How did you manage to get 55 fighters aloft???? Obviously the scenario you used allows more US aircraft aloft than was historically accurate. Is surprise off? Sadly the bomb that hit the real Arizona worked as expected, all too well.

Lawless1 -> RE: Unexpected results (12/29/2019 11:49:12 PM)
Surprise off some groups on training 100%, one P36 and one P40 group on CAP All patrol a/c on NAVS range 3 or 4

spence -> RE: Unexpected results (12/29/2019 11:55:32 PM)
A 60% (between complete duds and lower order detonations) among the actual hits may be accounted for by the results in the game (which is a little surprising since the 800 kg bombs seem to cause extensive damage in most games) however there is no differentiation between 250 kg bombs and 800 kg bombs in the results "printed". A careful count during the combat replay of level bombers (B5N2s) vs hits scored (on which ship) might solve several questions at the same time. Can you replay the turn with extra time to analyze the results (since most players reduce the times in the combat replay).

CmdrMctoast2 -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 12:07:22 AM)
I think maybe your planes were to low, dive bombing at 9K feet the bombs may have skipped off from the dive angle, if they came in at say 15k feet you might have had better penetration results from the steeper dive. Just a thought Cause my brain is rusty from an 8 year sabbatical.

Lawless1 -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 1:18:58 AM)
I did watch the attack video. Three different B5N dropped on the Maryland, each strike resulted in “Deck armor hit” What I found surprising was no damage, not even system damage on the Maryland. In all my many Dec 7 starts, I never seen no damage by 800kg bombs. My experience has been when they hit they hit hard. I may still loose the Arizona and the Oklahoma

spence -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 2:22:15 AM)
If the bombers were too low the 800 kg bomb may not have had sufficient kinetic energy to penetrate the armor. I think the Japanese figured that the 800 kg bomb needed to be dropped from 9000 ft to penetrate the deck armor and that a group of 5 bombers (B5Ns) would likely score 1 hit (so in fact they modified the normal shotai formation (3 bombers) to groups of 5. The actual results of 10 groups of 5 (50 level bombers assigned) achieved 10 hits overall but the overall results were totally obscured by the result of the single hit on Arizona which detonated the forward magazine (60% were either duds or had a low order of detonation according to the USN post-battle damage assessment). In fact, IIRC USS Maryland was hit twice by 800 kg bombs and neither did the "as advertised" damage. My experience in the game is much like yours. The 800 kg bombs do considerable damage to the US BBs. I don't think the 60% "dud" rate is reflected in the game.

CmdrMctoast2 -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 4:42:25 AM)
If dive bombing from 9k feet wouldn't they be considered glide bombing so the bombs would hit at an angle not like dive bombing from 15k feet where the bombs would be sent straight down as the plane had sufficient time to angle perpendicular at the target and yes better kinetics? just a thought.

fcooke -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 8:44:52 AM)
Kates cannot dive bomb, but I assume they could glide bomb, but that was not their doctrine/training.

BBfanboy -> RE: Unexpected results (12/30/2019 6:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke Kates cannot dive bomb, but I assume they could glide bomb, but that was not their doctrine/training. The game had a glide bombing calculation when it was released, but that was done away with about five years ago. If the aircraft is not dive bombing it is level bombing. Attack aircraft types do not actually skip bomb but they get bonuses to their low level attacks to simulate the better chance of hitting. What I have not seen from Attack aircraft bombing is the bombs hitting the ship side only, as opposed to the usual hits mostly on the deck and a few on the side

fcooke -> RE: Unexpected results (1/2/2020 10:21:39 AM)
BB - I was talking about RL, not game life, but I should have made that clear. Lack of sleep.....

BBfanboy -> RE: Unexpected results (1/2/2020 9:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke BB - I was talking about RL, not game life, but I should have made that clear. Lack of sleep..... And when I re-read your comment it is clear that you meant RL - I was the one up late and too sleepy to understand your drift! [image]local://upfiles/35791/0CB578805D994084B6BA78DEC5E3BD86.gif[/image]

Zorch -> RE: Unexpected results (1/3/2020 12:12:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke BB - I was talking about RL, not game life, but I should have made that clear. Lack of sleep..... And when I re-read your comment it is clear that you meant RL - I was the one up late and too sleepy to understand your drift! [image]local://upfiles/35791/0CB578805D994084B6BA78DEC5E3BD86.gif[/image] The difference between real life and game life is lack of sleep...plus Tracker.

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