Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (Full Version)

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DMcCooey206 -> Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 9:45:48 PM)

We could use some help understanding the Night Move as described in Manual Pg 58

"Night Move – A fleet that starts in a port, has 2 operation points,
and has moved 6 hexes or fewer will be considered doing a night
move. Fleets with carrier units can’t perform a night move. Night
moves are not subject to air attacks from air units or carriers.
Night moves drop the chance of being found and finding other
fleets by 50%."

Firstly, we found it's 5 or less hexes, not 6 or less. Secondly In some cases when not CV fleets are even present in ports my fleets with 2 Ops don't get a night move indicator? In one case I have a Pre-loaded from prior turn corp on TRS with a BB and CA fleet. all 3 can't night move, when I move the loaded TRS first, then the BB could night move. Oddly after I night move the BB only 4 hexes, an Enemy CV fleet 2 hexes away (not adjacent) was able to carrier interdict and sink my BB which was performing an indicated night move? So, has the protection from Carriers been removed from the rule?



AlbertN -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 9:53:47 PM)

I got transports too sank by doing the 'night move' - but in general the naval business needs some reviewing I hope.

From the capability to evacuate at will a place that is under siege of enemy vessels (It is guaranteed you move away); to the baiting of planes reaction to invade them after (send in a Patrol Group or sacrificial lamb, eat up 1 air bombing mission. Etc. Then you can send in your transports).

Also I am not sure of air cover and its function with transports.



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:02:03 PM)

Cohen_slith, I read that from your Sea-lion post before. You had concluded that evacuating troops if they sail out of range cannot be interdicted. That I believe is how the manual tells it. it says and I paraphrase - when you END your move within 5 hexes of CV/Sub or within Land air range, you can be interdicted. I was in fear that it meant you cannot be interdicted as you pass through enemy air space? But if the Manual is correct, and your experience is correct, then this must be true.

I can see how Alvaro may have coded it that way, as the Other way is MUCH MUCH harder to code. And, I think once the game affect sinks in he'll have to revise it to prevent gamer revolt [:D]



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:05:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

I got transports too sank by doing the 'night move' - but in general the naval business needs some reviewing I hope.

From the capability to evacuate at will a place that is under siege of enemy vessels (It is guaranteed you move away); to the baiting of planes reaction to invade them after (send in a Patrol Group or sacrificial lamb, eat up 1 air bombing mission. Etc. Then you can send in your transports).

Also I am not sure of air cover and its function with transports.


And yes, I agree the Naval interdiction needs help or at least help in manual definition. You mentioned baiting of planes, as like a soak off? but I have found there is no interdiction limit? I can run 7 ships to within 2 hexes of a CV fleet and all of them will sink.. but are you saying Land based air have limited amounts of auto interdiction missions?



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:14:45 PM)

I took a look at this. Yes something is off. I will investigate.



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:24:03 PM)

Thanks again Alvaro! yes a couple things - I suspect it may be a bug where my BB after night moving After my TRS moved out first causing it to "lose night move protection vs CV?" or maybe the manual is wrong and you've changed it so that CV's Can now interdict night moves? I think that may not be what you intended though?

Other thing - often when I move a Fleet into a port which has other fleets based there in many cases those fleets that were based there lose 1 Op point, is this intentional? or something you didn't intend to have happen? Same thing if I have a group of fleets based in a port and a land unit there gets loaded on TRS, thus combining in the counter with the other fleets... those other fleets seem to also lose 1 Op point. Was that intentional?



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:33:35 PM)

2 more Questions. The Night move rule on Page 58 doesn't seem to preclude pre-loaded Transported land unit/air unit from doing a Night move? but I can't seem to perform one in the game? So, to be clear is the intent do dissallow pre-loaded Corps from being able to gain Night move advantage? or is that a bug, and you do intend to allow pre-loaded Corps (that have 2 Op points) to make a Night move?

Other bigger question is Cohen_slith's question about free evacuations? It appears from game play it is maybe true that planes, and CV's or maybe even Sub are not allowed to interdict naval moved that enter their radius of interdiction, but pass through it to the other side and end there move outside of enemy interdiction range? Is this the actual case? And is that what you intended? If it's a side effect and wasn't intended that way, I think you should seriously consider trying to change that so naval moves can be interdicted enroute? Not sure how easy this would be? But for sure maybe you could add an interdiction chance at least at embarkation ports to prevent the Free Evacuations like we may have noticed.



AlbertN -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 10:42:04 PM)

Interception chance only happens at the -end- of the move; within a certain range that varies depending on what the intercepting unit is (I've still to master that aspect).

But I know land based airplanes at some point stop intercepting. They should have 2 action points - so there is the limit of 2. They may even intercept 0 times if they're too mauled, or simply their interception is inefficient. I am experiment some - but bombers can be baited to intercept 'sacrificial' sheeps, I mean ships obviously; lose efficiency, if possible bomb them as well. Then invasions are pratically easy as long as ports are lightly guarded. (Which is what is UK struggle at the start of the game - I know some players go fancy with armour and all, I am not sure if just infantry spam at the start will do and maybe squeezing in a fighter).



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 11:43:20 PM)

Ah, right, the Manual does say that Air craft and "Fleets" get to make 2 attacks or interceptions in each players turn. I thought an enemy CV fleet was witnessed intercepting more than 2 times... but that may have been 2 CV groups inside that fleet unit marker?. So, yes it appears your send in the sheep bait soak off is effective, and unfortunately a gamey problem.. to a point.

The bigger issue to be fixed in my books is if he can change the part about interception only happening at the -end- of the move. I see that as priority one if the Naval/Air system is going to work intuitively, and there are easier aspects, like add an 2nd point of search at the Start of the units move, to remove the "Free Evacuation problem". Then probably tackle the more complicated "in-route Interdiction" coding.



DMcCooey206 -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/29/2019 11:44:41 PM)

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AlvaroSousa -> RE: Need help defining Night Mission Naval moves (12/30/2019 8:18:20 PM)

I'll look at the code for this to see what I put. So many rules I forget at times.



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