Historical Map & ORBAT Mod

Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (Full Version)

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aspqrz02 -> Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 4:16:25 AM)
I have progressed a great deal in work on the Historical Map Mod plus ORBAT (Order of Battle) Mod and the relevant files can be found at ... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksc7wt7neuktm53/AAABt9NgQRXqbJT9cAPJbnvQa?dl=0 Updated 11:35 AEDST 7 JAN 19 There is a separate file for just the Map Mod and for the Map Mod + ORBAT mod as well as a text file with extensive notes on why things have been changed the way I have. Note - there are a LOT more units at start for all countries except, I think, the Netherlands, A LOT MORE. In many cases they are under, and possibly WELL under, full strength ... this may be because, while constituent units were at full strength, not all of the required units were present (so, for example, a LIC with only 2 instead of 3 divisions or a Mechanised Corps likewise) but, in some cases, it is because the understrength units represent pre-mobilisation status. I haven't done anything with the AI scripts yet, as some of them need to be changed to reflect historical or physical reality. Nor have I playtested the scenario ... except for Germany vs Poland, which doesn't change ... quick German victory for a marginally competent German player. I am thinking that I should require an actual Russian invasion of the Baltics rather than an automatic surrender ... and the change in the latest patch to prevent Baltic partisans will go, as long as I can make the Partisans anti-Soviet. Likewise, I am considering forcing the Russians to attack Finland instead of awarding them the borderlands automatically, if I can figure out how to prevent them conquering the whole of the country and force them to stop at the historical border gains. I am mulling as to whether to have a separate Slovak state in 1939, Axis Allied, as this was the historical state of affairs ... I am ALSO mulling the possibility of starting WW2 in March 1939 when the Germans occupied rump Czechoslovakia ... at least the the extent of having Czech forces on the map and requiring the Germans to beat up on them AND having France and the UK mobilise for a war footing as a result ... there would be room form possible Russian intervention at this point AND for the Russians to offer some sort of treaty with some of the Balkan states that would act as a trigger for an earlier Russo-German wr and an (even smaller) possibility for some sort of Russo-Polish Pact. Hey, why should the Germans have all the 'I'm not Hitler, I won't make the same mistakes' moments? Give the Allied player a 'I'm not an Appeaser, I won't make the same mistakes' chance as well! I'm also very suspicious of the triggers resulting from a possible Allied invasion of Norway increasing the chance of Spain going Axis, and even more suspicious of it affecting Portuguese chances ditto. As another option in the 'I'm not an appeaser, I won't make the same mistakes' I am considering some possible changes in the Iberian peninsula ... The possibility that the Republic hangs on longer ... maybe they don't undertake the Battle of the Ebro and by March 1939 (in the 'Czechoslovak Rump still exists' trigger) they are still in the field when the Allies declare war ... which forces the Allies to split their attention between the Western Front and the Iberian front! Anyway, that's how things stand at the moment ... any questions, criticisms or ideas are welcome. Phil McGregor

PanzerMike -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 8:03:13 AM)
Wow, impressive. The number of units is...huge!

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 9:37:05 AM)
All based on the Niehorster OOBs available online ... though the positioning isn't always exactly given. One of the reasons some of the gamey exploits are possible ... like Sealion, for example, is simply because the Germans are given more at start units at full strength than the Neutrals and Allies, even in comparison to what they actually had. I think the Germans will still be able to do what they did historically, but, believe me, they'll have to work hard for it ... which is as it should be. Phil McGregor

gwgardner -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 1:30:01 PM)
Really interesting mod. I'm thinking about testing it against the AI or even PBEM. Would that be useful, or better to wait till you've made the further changes you're considering?

gwgardner -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 4:09:31 PM)
If you prefer this thread not be cluttered with playtest comments, I'll clear out the following posts. Did I set up the mod correctly? 1) in the mygames/warplan/campaigns folder, made a copy of the 1939 Campaign folder, and renamed it 1939 Orbat Mod. 2) copied the .scn file to the campaigns folder Seemed to work, although I don't know why, since I didn't copy any new files over to the new folder. I guess the .scn file is used by the game to override the default files? Anyway, I then started a hotseat game and noted the following supply issues: [image]local://upfiles/20372/25CBA76E92894C1EB8809FCB86B50E80.jpg[/image]

gwgardner -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 4:10:13 PM)
... [image]local://upfiles/20372/E4141FF61224459DA79FF9005DAC3006.jpg[/image]

gwgardner -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 4:12:09 PM)
German units in East Prussia seem to be in supply. Not sure why they get a notification that they are in 'basic supply,' and in the reports get a 'in port basic supply.' First turn all German units there get that message, turns 2 and 3 only the three units shown get it. [image]local://upfiles/20372/F91CCE15E03E46BA82A20F3EC663341E.jpg[/image]

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 11:05:55 PM)
Setup: I presume so. The map file is in the ... C: Users: YourName: Documents: MyGames: WarPlan: Campaigns ... folder of my computer. The .scn files are just in the folder itself with all the .scn files. There are, however, two sub folders "1939 Map Only Mod" and "1939 ORBAT Mod" both of which are currently empty ... unlike the other sub folders which have a variety of text files for various things ... I will have to get around to the latter. I have moved the offending Russian unit NE of Lake Ladoga. Phil McGregor

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 11:16:18 PM)
It took me a while to work out what the problem with the Shetlands was ... and it was simple ... I hadn't set CONTROL ... it had to be set (of course) to the UK and, voila, all is now good! Phil McGregor

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/6/2020 11:18:14 PM)
As long as they're IN supply ... you really shouldn't be attacking with those three Divisions ... they're actually Border Guards ... and so their supply status shouldn't be a problem. I will upload the changed map files 'real soon now'. Phil McGregor

gwgardner -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/7/2020 10:06:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz02 Setup: I presume so. The map file is in the ... C: Users: YourName: Documents: MyGames: WarPlan: Campaigns ... folder of my computer. What is the name of the map file(s)? The download from your dropbox folder has the two .scn files, but no map files. But when I load the scenario there's your map. I obviously don't understand what's going on with these Warplan scenario files. Is the map within the .scn file?

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/7/2020 11:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gwgardner What is the name of the map file(s)? The download from your dropbox folder has the two .scn files, but no map files. But when I load the scenario there's your map. I obviously don't understand what's going on with these Warplan scenario files. Is the map within the .scn file? The .scn file INCLUDES the map and any units placed on it. In a sense it IS the map file ... Phil McGregor

IslandInland -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/8/2020 10:06:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz02 I have progressed a great deal in work on the Historical Map Mod plus ORBAT (Order of Battle) Mod and the relevant files can be found at ... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksc7wt7neuktm53/AAABt9NgQRXqbJT9cAPJbnvQa?dl=0 Updated 11:35 AEDST 7 JAN 19 There is a separate file for just the Map Mod and for the Map Mod + ORBAT mod as well as a text file with extensive notes on why things have been changed the way I have. Note - there are a LOT more units at start for all countries except, I think, the Netherlands, A LOT MORE. In many cases they are under, and possibly WELL under, full strength ... this may be because, while constituent units were at full strength, not all of the required units were present (so, for example, a LIC with only 2 instead of 3 divisions or a Mechanised Corps likewise) but, in some cases, it is because the understrength units represent pre-mobilisation status. I haven't done anything with the AI scripts yet, as some of them need to be changed to reflect historical or physical reality. Nor have I playtested the scenario ... except for Germany vs Poland, which doesn't change ... quick German victory for a marginally competent German player. I am thinking that I should require an actual Russian invasion of the Baltics rather than an automatic surrender ... and the change in the latest patch to prevent Baltic partisans will go, as long as I can make the Partisans anti-Soviet. Likewise, I am considering forcing the Russians to attack Finland instead of awarding them the borderlands automatically, if I can figure out how to prevent them conquering the whole of the country and force them to stop at the historical border gains. I am mulling as to whether to have a separate Slovak state in 1939, Axis Allied, as this was the historical state of affairs ... I am ALSO mulling the possibility of starting WW2 in March 1939 when the Germans occupied rump Czechoslovakia ... at least the the extent of having Czech forces on the map and requiring the Germans to beat up on them AND having France and the UK mobilise for a war footing as a result ... there would be room form possible Russian intervention at this point AND for the Russians to offer some sort of treaty with some of the Balkan states that would act as a trigger for an earlier Russo-German wr and an (even smaller) possibility for some sort of Russo-Polish Pact. Hey, why should the Germans have all the 'I'm not Hitler, I won't make the same mistakes' moments? Give the Allied player a 'I'm not an Appeaser, I won't make the same mistakes' chance as well! I'm also very suspicious of the triggers resulting from a possible Allied invasion of Norway increasing the chance of Spain going Axis, and even more suspicious of it affecting Portuguese chances ditto. As another option in the 'I'm not an appeaser, I won't make the same mistakes' I am considering some possible changes in the Iberian peninsula ... The possibility that the Republic hangs on longer ... maybe they don't undertake the Battle of the Ebro and by March 1939 (in the 'Czechoslovak Rump still exists' trigger) they are still in the field when the Allies declare war ... which forces the Allies to split their attention between the Western Front and the Iberian front! Anyway, that's how things stand at the moment ... any questions, criticisms or ideas are welcome. Phil McGregor Thanks for the mod. Can you explain where I place the files in the WarPlan folder structure?

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/8/2020 11:37:59 AM)
Place the .scn files in C: Users: YourName: Documents: MyGames: WarPlan: Campaigns ... folder of your computer. They should appear in the Scenario List when you start the game. If they don't you may need to create an empty subfolder with the same name for each of them in the above directory (i.e. Campaigns), but I think those are automatically created when you open them for the first time. The subfolders would normally contain the ai and other instructions, but these haven't been done for these scenarios yet. Phil McGregor

Zovs -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/8/2020 11:47:40 AM)
When will you update this scenario to correspond to the new 1.05 changes? Thanks.

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/8/2020 9:46:45 PM)
Many of them will apply to the scenario because they are part of the overall engine, I believe. Those that aren't, and which are part of the ai which may (or may not) be in the named scenario folder which, for the moment, is blank in my two scenarios will, well, not be implemented until I get around to working on the ai. Some of these will NOT be implemented automatically, for example the location of the Persian road/rail hexes to be converted (they were in the wrong place originally, I will have to check and see if they still are) and the Baltic partisan preventing control changes (if they prevent anti-SOVIET partisans, they're wrong, for example ... ) This is a long term (read: SLOW) project that I am working on in my copious free time while writing a fourth book for my Kickstarter project ... I don't have the time (or skills) that Alvaro has! Phil McGregor

IslandInland -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/9/2020 5:12:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz02 Place the .scn files in C: Users: YourName: Documents: MyGames: WarPlan: Campaigns ... folder of your computer. They should appear in the Scenario List when you start the game. If they don't you may need to create an empty subfolder with the same name for each of them in the above directory (i.e. Campaigns), but I think those are automatically created when you open them for the first time. The subfolders would normally contain the ai and other instructions, but these haven't been done for these scenarios yet. Phil McGregor Thank you.

Rosseau -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/10/2020 6:14:46 AM)
Thanks for this mod. It shows what can be done with the vanilla game if sufficiently motivated! I have tweaked a few things like Partisans and will play Axis vs. the AI to see how the scripts hold up. Again, greatly appreciated. (I do like how in one vanilla game, the Axis AI overran Spain (and Gibraltar), creating a real problem for the Allies.)

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/10/2020 7:20:26 AM)
You won't be overrunning Spain or taking Gibraltar in THIS reality ... not unless you forego Barbarossa, and, realistically, probably not even then. Even the Germans were pretty sure it couldn't be done, realistically - read up on Operation Felix. Phil McGregor

Lascar -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/11/2020 8:32:45 PM)
Thank you for your efforts in creating this mod. It is an impressive piece of work, looking forward to using it as the standard scenario for playing War Plan. Adding the additional resource locations is a nice touch too. I noticed that neither the original scenario or this mod has the Petsamo nickle mine on the map. The Germans considered it to be an important resource as nickle was a vital alloy for manufacturing high quality steel. The Germans committed three corps for the defense of northern Finland, both for defending the nickel mine (rare metals) and northern Norway.

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 12:15:15 AM)
I didn't know about the Nickel mines in Petsamo ... and, it seems, neither did the League of Nations! I used the LoN statistical Yearbook for 1939 for the placement of natural resources and, for Nickel mining in Europe it gives figures of Greece (1000 metric tons), Norway (1200 metric tons), Germany (272 metric tons) and the USSR (2000 metric tons) for 1938. There is NO mention of Finnish production. NONE. Which is strange, as I can find the existence of the Petsamo Mine mentioned as a possible cause of the Russo-Finnish war in several places on the 'Net. However, NONE of those places provide ANY figures on output. And they indicate that the mining was only begun some time AFTER 1935 ... so I am wondering whether, despite all the claims as to the importance of the Mine whether it was actually in significant production during the war? Do you have actual figures? Does ANYONE have actual figures? I CAN put in a Exotic Metals resource there IF it seems that the output was significant ... but without any figures I cannot make a decision at this point. Phil McGregor

PanzerMike -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 6:31:54 AM)
Nickel matte produced between July 1941 and September 1944: 17,000 tonnes. In addition 114,000 tonnes of nickel ore were shipped South. https://books.google.nl/books?id=fIMgDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=nickel+mine+petsamo&source=bl&ots=xzsGedGvFP&sig=ACfU3U3hgVrwHGWksIizSeS6xRd9m8-05Q&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBxpLxvv3mAhWRJlAKHQ_CAm4Q6AEwFHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nickel%20mine%20petsamo&f=true

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 7:51:06 AM)
Ah. Did a bit of further digging ... the figures you mention, however, are obviously ridiculous ... except that, in both cases, it seems, they are for raw ore and translate into about 5-7% of that weight of nickel metal which is more in line with what other bigger producers produced according to League Yearbook ... which is 800-1000 tons for, I think, 1940-41 and 7-10000 tons over the course of the rest of the war. I will add a Rare Metals hex SW of Petsamo. Phil McGregor

Lascar -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 8:35:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz02 I didn't know about the Nickel mines in Petsamo ... and, it seems, neither did the League of Nations! I used the LoN statistical Yearbook for 1939 for the placement of natural resources and, for Nickel mining in Europe it gives figures of Greece (1000 metric tons), Norway (1200 metric tons), Germany (272 metric tons) and the USSR (2000 metric tons) for 1938. There is NO mention of Finnish production. NONE. Which is strange, as I can find the existence of the Petsamo Mine mentioned as a possible cause of the Russo-Finnish war in several places on the 'Net. However, NONE of those places provide ANY figures on output. And they indicate that the mining was only begun some time AFTER 1935 ... so I am wondering whether, despite all the claims as to the importance of the Mine whether it was actually in significant production during the war? Do you have actual figures? Does ANYONE have actual figures? I CAN put in a Exotic Metals resource there IF it seems that the output was significant ... but without any figures I cannot make a decision at this point. Phil McGregor Here are the German nickel stocks and consumption during the course of the war: Year: 1939,1940,1941,1942,1943,1944 Supplies: 8500,13700,8800,5500,7600,10900 Consumption: 10100,11600,9200,8000,9400,9500 Stocks: 9200,11300,10900,10400,8600,7900 Apparently, around 80% of German nickel requirements for their war industry came from the Petsamo mine. There was a lot of diplomatic wrangling between the Finns, Germans and the USSR before the invasion of the Soviet Union over the Petsamo nickel mine. It was a great concern for the Germans to assure their access to the nickel deposits at Petsamo. https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2290&context=etd

PanzerMike -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 8:59:44 AM)
During the first part of war Germany mostly used the nickel they got from France to build tanks etc. But in 1943 the nickel of Petsamo covered some 73% of the German use and in 1944 even up to 87%. Between 1940-42 Petsamo delivered 2,900 tons of PURE nickel ( counted as pure while most of it was sent to Germany to be purified ) and 43-44 12,900 tons ( also turned into pure nickel figures ). All in all the need for PURE nickel in Germany was about 50,000 tons during WW2 of which Petsamo delivered some 13,000 tons, this much considered as covering one year�s need for all production. http://ww2f.com/threads/petsamo-germans-get-any-nickel.4144/

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 12:35:41 PM)
Thats the figures I saw ... so averaging ~950 tons pa for 1940-42 (I'm assuming most of this would have been toward the end of the period based on the 43-44 figures) and 6000 pa for 43-44. There's no way to model this, afaict ... Unless ... the war starts in 1939 with NO Rare Metals outside Petsamo and the RM hex is added by script in late 1942 or early 43. Since I am not certain exactly what 'Rare Metals' represent in the game, or how they are used in the game system, I am not even sure I should include them. Phil McGregor

Lascar -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 4:08:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz02 Thats the figures I saw ... so averaging ~950 tons pa for 1940-42 (I'm assuming most of this would have been toward the end of the period based on the 43-44 figures) and 6000 pa for 43-44. There's no way to model this, afaict ... Unless ... the war starts in 1939 with NO Rare Metals outside Petsamo and the RM hex is added by script in late 1942 or early 43. Since I am not certain exactly what 'Rare Metals' represent in the game, or how they are used in the game system, I am not even sure I should include them. Phil McGregor The rare metals are strategic resources that add 1% to total production (page 24 of the manual). There is no need to assign a specific quantity to it like iron ore.

Lascar -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 4:08:54 PM)
quote: aspqrz02 Thats the figures I saw ... so averaging ~950 tons pa for 1940-42 (I'm assuming most of this would have been toward the end of the period based on the 43-44 figures) and 6000 pa for 43-44. There's no way to model this, afaict ... Unless ... the war starts in 1939 with NO Rare Metals outside Petsamo and the RM hex is added by script in late 1942 or early 43. Since I am not certain exactly what 'Rare Metals' represent in the game, or how they are used in the game system, I am not even sure I should include them. Phil McGregor Adding it would be consistent with the additional rare metal sites you have already added. Also, the existence of the Petsamo nickel mine was an important consideration in German strategic planning and operations in northern Finland. https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2290&context=etd

aspqrz02 -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/12/2020 10:53:09 PM)
It's done, I will post the updated map 'real soon now' ... in the next couple of days Phil

Lascar -> RE: Historical Map & ORBAT Mod (1/13/2020 6:56:27 AM)
Sounds good, looking forward to eventually trying your excellent historical mod. BTW, I notice a possible slight typo with one of the German units. All of the German mech/armor corps have a 70 experience, except for the XVI mech which has 50. Is this intended or a typo?

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