Airstrikes with no enemy armor left (Full Version)

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Gordon_freeman -> Airstrikes with no enemy armor left (6/29/2001 6:52:00 PM)

Hi everyone, I remember a few threads about airstrikes. Here is mine and i am not pleased with it! I was playing a campaign game as a German vs. Poland. I first destroyed all Polish armor, then, when there was all infantry broken and on the run, i called in massive artillery strikes as well as 4 straffing runs of HE 123 and 4 ME 110. And, would u believe it, none of em attacked the polish infantry, but just my closing in tanks. Not a single shot was fired at those polish troops, but all the planes mistakenly attacked my tanks (only one shot, but nevertheless). I would'nt whine around if I was attacked once or twice, but not a single plotted attack hit the Poles! I think this needs serious rewritting in the attack routines in SPWAW! I read that planes go for armour first, true, but it cannot be that all planes did'nt attack the visible masses of enemies (I checked it) and attack instead the up to 20 -30 hex away from the original requested targethex standing own tanks. I don't know wether other nationaleties have the same problem, but I guess they do. Please check it, cause I think that airstrikes against infantry on the run or moving are at least able to supress them. George



sven -> (6/29/2001 9:04:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by George aka 2f: Hi everyone, I remember a few threads about airstrikes. Here is mine and i am not pleased with it! I was playing a campaign game as a German vs. Poland. I first destroyed all Polish armor, then, when there was all infantry broken and on the run, i called in massive artillery strikes as well as 4 straffing runs of HE 123 and 4 ME 110. And, would u believe it, none of em attacked the polish infantry, but just my closing in tanks. Not a single shot was fired at those polish troops, but all the planes mistakenly attacked my tanks (only one shot, but nevertheless). I would'nt whine around if I was attacked once or twice, but not a single plotted attack hit the Poles! I think this needs serious rewritting in the attack routines in SPWAW! I read that planes go for armour first, true, but it cannot be that all planes did'nt attack the visible masses of enemies (I checked it) and attack instead the up to 20 -30 hex away from the original requested targethex standing own tanks. I don't know wether other nationaleties have the same problem, but I guess they do. Please check it, cause I think that airstrikes against infantry on the run or moving are at least able to supress them. George
They may not have 'seen' the inf. Was the inf. in the open or under cover? sven



gdpsnake -> (6/29/2001 9:07:00 PM)

I concur with this. I've stopped calling in airstrikes when I think enemy armor is sparse. The german a/c ALWAYS go for my armor no matter where on the battlefield. THEY NEVER attack ANY type of enemy unit (Inf, AT, Art, Mort, Truck. etc) even when in in the open, spotted, etc.



Paul Vebber -> (6/29/2001 11:23:00 PM)

If you have armor within about 500 yrds (10 hexes) of the spot, then yes the flyboys will typically go for it. If you keep the aristrikes away from your vehicles they will attack infantry (and do particularly well against ammo dumps). Airstrikes closer than 500 yards of your lines are about as likely to hit you as the bad guys, so plan accordingly. I just tested this one too... PLEASE before you write to complain based on a few events torquing you off in the game, take 5 minutes and make a little test case, by some airstrikes and scatter a few of your tanks around and a few platoons of infantry and watch what happens...Its war - things go wrong and sometimes despite your best effort, you lose...



Alexandra -> (6/30/2001 12:25:00 AM)

And it's also quite realistic for a/c to hit armor over infantry, even friendly armor. First of all, it's much easier to see a tank than infantry, especially on a smoke filled battefield. Secondly, most pilots - then and now - hated to do 'air to mud' and would hit the first thing they saw to get out of there. Lastly, you didn't get medals for killing infantry, you got them for tanks. I've never seen any pilot - of any side - written up in a history book for how good they were at killing men, but plenty of ones who were good at tank killing get mentioned. Alex



Warrior -> (6/30/2001 1:16:00 PM)

A lot depends on the direction you have them doing the run.



Gordon_freeman -> (7/1/2001 8:42:00 PM)

Dear peopel, first i like to reply to the statement that pilots do not get any medals or anything they destroyed appart from tanks: Rudel, the infamous German Stuka ace was quiet famous for killing everything on the ground, specially Infantry in any form! He was mentioned for that several times. Second, during the invasion of Poland and the BeNeLux/France German airstrikes (and I mean the straffing runs with ME110's for instance) or so called ground attack planes like the HS123 were equipped for attacking infantry and soft targets. So, saying they did'nt really like it might be true, but that was what they were there for and what they did. Many infantry concentrations have been destroyed by airstrikes, and I am not talking about the bombers. Ground attack planes had by the way at the beginning of the war (excluding the JU87) no propper bombs versus tanks! Back to my statement: I have tried it for several times, and all these (sorry, but i have to say it now) Luftwaffenbastards never attacked a "soft" target, they were allways going for my tanks, and I checked visibility, they (and now i have to be carefull, cause I don't know their expirience in terms of spotting!) should have spotted them! So, I thought that SPWAW should not only consider more resonable rules for infantry damage but also check the rules for different airstrikes, like u already have made the distinction between bombing runs and straffing runs. I think the rigfht way, but still a lot could be improved. If you take for instance the Russian ground attack planes during the early stages of the war, they mainly attacked soft targets (appart form the situation that Germany never had enough tanks). The main tagets for ground attacks are of course tanks and propper field installations like guns, ammo dumps etc. But because we are talking about a game I am the one who calls in airstrikes and I make the targets. Maybe you should enter something like an airforce liason officer who is actually able to give propper orders to the "fly guys". Americans used them very frequently in the later stages of the war, and all other nations surly had them (of course in different stages). That would solve the problem immideatly, I think... But maybe I am just to picky. But having read so many books about ground attacks from the Luftwaffe I think that way, and rememver the D-Day were English (I think it were Tempests) which destroyed the German supply trucks and shortend the ammsupply at Omaha beach defence even greater. I also know that the effectivity is far from being good (even today!) but at least we are talking about a game...and there is nothing more frustating seeing ur guys getting shot to pieces not only once but al the time! George



Mai Thai -> (7/2/2001 4:04:00 PM)

When playing a generated long campaign as a german i had the same problem with airstikes i.e. if there is no enemy armor left on the battlefield the pilots tends to bomb my own tanks. The only objectives that they could catch with seems to be enemy bunkers and fortified artillery (if spotted) but shurely not enemy infantry, i think this is a bit strange and when i say enemy infantry i mean hordes of them (polish and russish) i didn't meention it but i am still playing with v5.01 bye [ July 02, 2001: Message edited by: Mai Thai ]



toh -> (7/2/2001 7:13:00 PM)

Dear Sirs, Same thing happens to me. The 500 meter "safety zone" seems allright. Hmm - I try normally to get a spotterplane and then hit enemy armor, bunkers or fortified arty at the third round. Regards



BigDuke66 -> (7/6/2001 3:48:00 AM)

Back to the Top. As I played WB reworked Bushmaster Scenario I called in my 2 B-25, and these stupid Fly Boys killed on of my tanks! If it happened in the middle of a big Tank Battle it would be OK, the Guys made a mistake. But it happened in a Scenario where the Enemy didn't even had ANY VEHICLES on the Map. Can't the just do what I want? Just hit the damn Enemy! Everthing I sad was: "Hey Fly-Boys we could need assistance down here, can you pass from North-West to South East and hit anything that lays in the Wood South-East of the village?" And they answered: "Yea of course, we will be happy to help you." And I said: "OK we will wait for you, search for dug in Infantry, looks like they don't have any Vehicles on this side of the River so if you discover Tanks these are ours, OK?" And they answered again: "OK we will watch out, ETA 5 Minutes." So I waited, and finally I heard the Sound I've waited for and that brought a big smile on my face. But I guess we had misunderstood each other because the Pilot must have thought "Oh yes we could attack Infantry but I guess we spend some rounds with our AT-Rifle and kill this little Tank with the white Star on the Turret". And yes the did it, they placed a really nice shoot and my Tank was history. But I already talked to the Pilot and we discussed the Problem, I wonder if he can already walk again and I wonder what Doctor they took the remove that AP Round from his Ass. So can anybody teach these Boys to do what we want, or do I have to do this with every Fly Boy??? [ July 05, 2001: Message edited by: BigDuke66 ]



Tombstone -> (7/6/2001 4:04:00 AM)

I've experienced this problem too. I, for the life of me, have been absolutely unable to attack infantry with airplanes. Even when no other target other than infantry is available, my experience so far, has the airplane not even dropping its load of bombs. It's not a big deal to me, but it's less than perfect. (I would rather the plane drop it's bombs like in the old days) Tomo



Belisarius -> (7/6/2001 4:33:00 AM)

Yep, I've seen it too. If enemy armor is running scarce, I don't call in airstrikes to kill them off. If the flyers can't find the tanks, they will strike my own armor. :eek: Worst case was when I was playing US advance vs GE delay. Called in Thunderbolts to knock out two panzers, coming in from over the Ge lines and exiting over my rear. Unfortunately, my TD's knocked out the panzers, so BOTH Thunderbolts went on to reduce my SPG battery to ashes! ...and they were 10 hexes from the edge... :D



panda124c -> (7/6/2001 8:30:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by BigDuke66: Back to the Top. As I played WB reworked Bushmaster Scenario I called in my 2 B-25, and these stupid Fly Boys killed on of my tanks! If it happened in the middle of a big Tank Battle it would be OK, the Guys made a mistake. But it happened in a Scenario where the Enemy didn't even had ANY VEHICLES on the Map. Can't the just do what I want? Just hit the damn Enemy! Everthing I sad was: "Hey Fly-Boys we could need assistance down here, can you pass from North-West to South East and hit anything that lays in the Wood South-East of the village?" And they answered: "Yea of course, we will be happy to help you." And I said: "OK we will wait for you, search for dug in Infantry, looks like they don't have any Vehicles on this side of the River so if you discover Tanks these are ours, OK?" And they answered again: "OK we will watch out, ETA 5 Minutes." So I waited, and finally I heard the Sound I've waited for and that brought a big smile on my face. But I guess we had misunderstood each other because the Pilot must have thought "Oh yes we could attack Infantry but I guess we spend some rounds with our AT-Rifle and kill this little Tank with the white Star on the Turret". And yes the did it, they placed a really nice shoot and my Tank was history. But I already talked to the Pilot and we discussed the Problem, I wonder if he can already walk again and I wonder what Doctor they took the remove that AP Round from his Ass. So can anybody teach these Boys to do what we want, or do I have to do this with every Fly Boy??? [ July 05, 2001: Message edited by: BigDuke66 ]
Well I guese you just have to understand the 'fly boys' all ships are battleships or carriers, all tanks are enemy, if you had tanks you would not need us. So here we are back in the operations shack knocking back a few cold ones after another successful mission. :D



BigDuke66 -> (7/7/2001 6:19:00 AM)

Hoho another Candidate for an "AP-Round out of the Ass" Operation :D . Just tested again with Bushmasters and it looks like the Dead-Zone is at least 19 Hex big that is almost 1 Kilometer. I would understand if they would attack a Tank that is really close to the Target hex, but the way it is is big big Bull....(you know what I mean). What should I do? Send my Vehicles of the Map so the Boys can do what they are paid for? Can't that somehow be fixed? A smaller "Dead-Zone" would already do the job, maybe 5-10 Hex? [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: BigDuke66 ]



BigDuke66 -> (7/7/2001 5:09:00 PM)

Back to the peak.



Commander Klank -> (7/7/2001 5:53:00 PM)

Ditto for me on the Bushmasters senrio. I call air in twice and both times they went after the tanks. And one time the armor was over 15 hexes away! On a lighter note I'm playing an e-mail battle: Germans vs Reds 1944 (I'm the Reds). I found that all I have to do is call in a A/C strike in on a nearby artillety referance point and they (the A/C) go right after those big ass King Tigers :D As a matter of fact I just damaged one of the big SOBs tonight!!!! Hell, I'd pay a dollar to be a fly on the wall when my opponent opens the game......LOL I also noticed that if all your friendly armor is in woods (as well as WAAAAAAY far way from the target area) your on A/C tend to ignore them (most of the time. :D :D )



BigDuke66 -> (7/11/2001 2:04:00 AM)

Back. Any statement from the official side?



Tombstone -> (7/11/2001 8:04:00 AM)

Is this any better in 6.1?? I imagine that's unlikely, but it certainly is an issue... Not a big deal, but definitely a bit frustrating. It's actually a good call to drive an 'unimportant vehicle into a horde of suppressed infantry so you can bomb it. Nothing eliminates guys better than those bombs, but it's really hard to get them on those guys. Tomo



Nikademus -> (7/11/2001 8:41:00 AM)

happened to me last night for the first time. And the range was longer than 500 yards too. Fortunately the P-51 had only one rocket left and missed my Sherman. They got the Tiger though. whoo hoo :cool:



Paul Vebber -> (7/12/2001 1:43:00 AM)

There isn;t much we can do in SPWaW...CAS will be handled differently in CL.



Banjo -> (7/12/2001 5:09:00 AM)

While playing the MC, I called in airstrikes blind. Meaning no specific target was pinpointed, just locations where I thought the enemy might be sitting. I had two strikes hit an HQ tent, and one hit an ammo dump. Two more spotted enemy tanks and took them out. One went after one of my vehicles. As I said these were brought in with no specific target. Does this mean they will attack targets other than armor, I don't know. Just thought I would put my two cents in. I'm experimenting with airstrikes.



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