Replacements and Upgrades (Full Version)

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DicedT -> Replacements and Upgrades (1/28/2020 11:55:54 PM)

I'm trying to understand the Replacement and Upgrade system. I have several Allied air units that are health 2 or 3 or 5, and they've been that way many turns despite despite being marked for priority replacements.

Also, it's mid-1943, I have Interceptor and Escort Fighter tech at 1944 level -- and none of my on-map fighters are at 1944. Some are still in 1941 (particularly annoying for Escort Fighters. which don't enjoy long range until '44). I'm actually debating whether, once a fighter becomes depleted to health 5 or so, whether it's better to disband it and then rebuild it. That way, it will come back with the latest tech.

So a few questions:


* What is the maximum rate of replacement? If a unit is health, how long before it can return to health 20 or 30? Is there anything a player can do to speed this up?

* How does the Reinforcement/Upgrade setting work exactly? If I set it for 80 percent, does this mean 80 percent of production goes to reinf/upgrade?

* Does Reinforcement/Upgrade apply to next turn's production? In other words, if I have 300 build points in the Stockpile and I spend them all, does that mean there's nothing left for reinf/upgrade?

* It seems strange that in mid-'43, units are still using '41 tech. Is there a way to speed this up?

Michael




Michael T -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 12:04:03 AM)

I think your biggest mistake is assuming the replacement setting is a percentage. It's actually the total amount of production you are allocating to replacements and upgrades. It's a common mistake.

If you have that setting at 80, that means you are only allocating 80 production. Which does not go far. Up that to several hundred and you should see some results.

Units won't replace more than 20%. So a 30 step unit won't rebuild any more than 6 steps per turn. A 20 step unit 5 steps. Divisions don't seem to replace anymore than 1 step per turn.



DicedT -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 12:18:40 AM)

Whoa! This needs to be made super-explicit in the manual!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think your biggest mistake is assuming the replacement setting is a percentage. It's actually the total amount of production you are allocating to replacements and upgrades. It's a common mistake.

If you have that setting at 80, that means you are only allocating 80 production. Which does not go far. Up that to several hundred and you should see some results.

Units won't replace more than 20%. So a 30 step unit won't rebuild any more than 6 steps per turn. A 20 step unit 5 steps. Divisions don't seem to replace anymore than 1 step per turn.




Michael T -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 12:25:31 AM)

Ever heard of 'Bastards Incorporated'?

I think they has something to do with the manual [:D]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 2:11:10 PM)

Page 24.

Reinforcement and upgrade – The amount set is allocated to
repair and upgrade units on the map. No more than the amount set
will be spent on repairs and upgrades per turn. If a player sets the
amount to 0, then no production will be used to repair and upgrade
units. If it is set to equal to or more than what is available in the
stockpile, then all production will be used.



FrankGallagher -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 7:06:20 PM)

I think the problem is lack of information to guide the player as to how much to allocate for upgrades/reinforcements. Without some sense of how much is required it all just guesswork. 80 isn't enough, how can I tell? Maybe 250 just wastes production that doesn't have any place to go.

[I don't want to sound too negative, I'm loving the game. There are still a couple of areas where I'm not sure what to do, this is one.]



battlevonwar -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 7:11:30 PM)

For you and all people that are relatively starting out here is an area where I'll help.

If you're the British Player and you have 10 units that require 50 points of repair(total just count all the damage and mark the units you want within the unit panel for upgrades and repairs or not if you don't want to repair them). You would allocate about 50 points. You would not be able to repair all in 1 turn as you can only repair about 20% per unit each turn so you don't have to really put that much in but some would naturally go over to upgrades.

If you are running the Soviets or Germans and have taken massive casualties that you know are in the hundreds it may be wise to allocate all production to repairs and forgo building unless you got time to sit.



quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankGallagher

I think the problem is lack of information to guide the player as to how much to allocate for upgrades/reinforcements. Without some sense of how much is required it all just guesswork. 80 isn't enough, how can I tell? Maybe 250 just wastes production that doesn't have any place to go.

[I don't want to sound too negative, I'm loving the game. There are still a couple of areas where I'm not sure what to do, this is one.]




Michael T -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/29/2020 8:16:36 PM)

One extra sentence is needed.

"The amount set is not a percentage, it is the total amount of production to be used for repairs/upgrades."

why?, because "amount" to some people means percentage. A lot of games use a percentage in this type of thing so it would be prudent to define what an "amount" is. To be honest it took me a while before I realized it was not a percentage either.



FrankGallagher -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (1/30/2020 4:11:00 PM)


This is a huge help, thanks.



ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 2:12:34 AM)

Hello Michael
I'm going to try to answer your questions in a series of posts with a specific example. Reinforcement, Upgrades and oil consumption have been a great interest to me. (The enigma machine in this game that I so enjoy) The very same questions you have I have been asking myself. While the numbers I have worked for 1.00.05g1, I'm not sure I will have to do some adjusting with the new version. Anyway, my approach is a little different and I'll explain through an example. The picture below is a first move in the 1939 Scenario. I have turn off reinforcements and upgrades on every unit on the board except for the ones you see depicted below. (ie. That's what I do to control reinforcements and upgrades) The picture you see is after the first attack. The numbers included next to each unit is it's strength/totalStrength and = + the number of reinforcement strengths the unit is able to take if you provide it with enough PP points (as explained in previous posts above.) Note: The armor unit requires an upgrade also because it's tech is Breakthrough 1939 and the current tech level in 1939 is Breakthrough 1940.

Pic below is end of German turn Sept 1, 1939

[image]local://upfiles/13464/379C77879B4347E7AECD57B912CE87AF.jpg[/image]



ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 2:23:17 AM)

Now to explain the pic above, all the units above can be fully reinforced except for the interceptor that has taken a 4 strength loss. It's max replacement for a turn is actually 3 strength. Thus, with the appropriate allocated PP, the max strength it can reach is 19/20 after this turn. Note: The numbers I mention are the ones you see on the screen (ie. I don't know if they are rounded up or down). The PP on the screen used is for the PREVIOUS turn, hence why at the beginning of the game it is set to 0. (Upkeep) I will show you that it will take about 98-100 PP points (UPKEEP) to reinforce all but the interceptor unit to full strength and upgrade the armor unit at the same time for THIS turn. Please remember, I have turned off all reinforcements/upgrades on all other units. (I rarely use the priority reinforcement button)

The pic below depicts that 99 PP was actually used for Sept. 1 for reinforcement and upgrades.

[image]local://upfiles/13464/35783522E5AD48AFA046E846DA034FB8.jpg[/image]



ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 2:29:17 AM)

What I have learned thus far; Remember please, I use this for estimation and it's close but not perfect. It's difficult to come up with precise numbers when all you see is integers. Depending on the unit, each unit requires a certain number of PP points to reinforce for each strength up to it's possible max reinforcement number per turn. Furthermore, a unit requires the full amount of PP points to upgrade. Working with the game and testing values, I have found the following results to be a close estimate of what's happening in the game.

[image]local://upfiles/13464/2CB08ACD1C9041AC883F96BD85407D1A.jpg[/image]



ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 2:41:25 AM)

note: I looked at only Assault, Breakthrough, Interception and Close Combat techs. The values may change with different techs.(Alvaro can answer this question) But I'm hoping that this example shows how things work under the hood at least as I see it. Please feel free to correct me if you see things differently.
I'll explain the table first, if you look at row 7 for a German Armor unit, it's full strength is 30, it requires 36 PP per unit (in full that turn) to upgrade. Each 1 strength increase costs approximately 7.44 PP to replace that strength. (ie. 28/30 will require +2 strengths which will be approximately 15PP to bring the unit back to full strength)
Note: The maximum strength it can reinforce is 5 in a turn, so if the armor unit was sitting at 24/30, the maximum strength it can be brought to next turn is 29/30 using approximately 37-38PP

So from my first pic above you can see that I will be reinforcing those 30 strength infantry requiring reinforcements with 7 strength factors and each of them will be at full strength after this turn, where as the armor unit requires 2 strength of reinforcements and the full 36PP to upgrade.
Note also, the interceptor will not be able to be fully reinforced this turn, hence the 18PP to brings it's strength next turn to 19/20. Whereas the stuka requires only 1 strength and can be brought to full strength with 6PP.

Note: My estimate above was close: 98.26

Pic below is Sept 15, 1939

[image]local://upfiles/13464/2BCEDCFF71AA4169BC42C09AB369A76E.jpg[/image]



ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 2:59:09 AM)

Game Mechanics that I've observed: (Once again, please feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect)
1) units out of supply cannot be reinforced (or upgraded)
2) you can only do one upgrade level per turn. That is Breakthrough 1939 to 1940. Next turn, 1940 to 1941.
3) No partial upgrades, it's all or nothing. That is you can't assign 12 PP for 3 turns and then expect an armor unit to upgrade. (unused PP is stored)
4) It would seem that the program attempts to make a full strength unit first and will store PP if it doesn't use the production points. For example, two 20 strength INF unit after combat have strengths 18/20 and 17/30. If you provide 7 PP for reinforce/upgrade (equivalent to 2 strength of reinforcements), the 18/20 will be reinforced fully and the 17/20 will remain the same. The result will be INF 20/20 and 17/20. However, given the same situation and provide 4 PP to reinforce/upgrade, the game will place the 4PP in storage and keep the 2 INF units at 18/20 and 17/20. So the rule of thumb I use is provide enough PP to reinforce the units you want reinforce and turn off reinforcements for those units that don't require it. This way I can control the flow of production points. Questions I'm still answering is the order of reinforcements, Naval, Air, Armor, Mech, Inf, HQ, I think ???????




ago1000 -> RE: Replacements and Upgrades (2/1/2020 3:15:07 AM)

I just noticed I forgot to show you my reinforcement/upgrade setting Sept. 1 turn. So I had set aside 116 PP the previous turn to make those reinforcements and upgrades. Note: I put a little extra just in case I had been attacked and would have other replacements to make.



[image]local://upfiles/13464/04F9EAED5A3144EF8E223753FBF1BBD1.jpg[/image]



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