RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it?

RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (Full Version)

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jdsrae -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 6:34:51 AM)
I’ve asked my veteran pilots if they want a posting to Training Command but they’ve all politely declined. They are all happy competing for top ace status, promotions and bragging rights.

rustysi -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 3:13:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian R quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: Edit - meaning a cap of 50, or possibly 59 in TRACOM. Have considered this, but I figured a cap of 99. For myself if that didn't work I'd inform my opponent that I'd be lowering the number. Japan gets a lot in this game, wouldn't want to take more. Some allied players (as reported here) like to hide a bunch of their best pilots in TRACOM, so they can re-activate them when the F4U, Spitfire Mk VIII and ultimately the F6F become available. They might actually want more than 99. I get it. I too as a JFB would like to have more in the pool, but not at the expense of having my pilots train to way above the 'national average' limit. You could just as easily put pilots in the 'general reserve' when they hit 79/80, its what I'll do.

rustysi -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 3:17:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jdsrae I’ve asked my veteran pilots if they want a posting to Training Command but they’ve all politely declined. They are all happy competing for top ace status, promotions and bragging rights. Maybe on your CV's, but I would recommend saving some others 'for a rainy day', if you get my drift. Of course, JMHO. YMMV.

traskott -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 3:45:03 PM)
So, if I understand this right: I move 300/400 top pilots to tracom, the new pilots I will get will have better exp, isn't?

rustysi -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 3:46:21 PM)
Yes.

traskott -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 3:59:57 PM)
Thanks!. Will try it in my PBEM. :)

rustysi -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 4:06:49 PM)
I'd let my opponent know first. Don't know what type of game you're playing, but this is not WAD and some might frown upon it.

jdsrae -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 11:01:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi ...I would recommend saving some others 'for a rainy day'... It’s already raining, 500lb bombs!

RangerJoe -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 11:15:02 PM)
The Allies can do it as well and then have highly trained pilots graduating as well.

Kull -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/5/2020 11:32:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe The Allies can do it as well and then have highly trained pilots graduating as well. That's possible, even likely, but until somebody posts examples of ANY Allied pilots graduating with experience levels higher than the National Average, we don't know if it's true.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 8:31:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: traskott Thanks!. Will try it in my PBEM. :) quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi I'd let my opponent know first. Don't know what type of game you're playing, but this is not WAD and some might frown upon it. Just for the records, I would have let known my opponent first if I had been aware of the issue - I discovered it with this treat as I never really paid attention before. I didn't intentionally stuff TRACOM with pilots in order to increase rookie exp, but just for pilot management reasons. I used to put the elite guys from the carriers in TRACOM when KB is in port (which it is in my game most of th etime for lack of fuel) and fill the carrier groups with rookies for training for the duration, and used the General Reserve pool to keep the run-of-the-mill 70-50-50 pilots trained on-map. From now on I'll limit the use of TRACOM to 100 pilots max.

obvert -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 11:09:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Kull If this really is a bug driven by "numbers of pilots in TRACOM", then it should be fairly common. It would be helpful if other folks with long running games could look at their games and post similar screenshots showing non-standard Experience values on that screen. Coming late, had to wait for a fresh turn to do screenies. As you can see, I have 340+ IJN pilots in TRACOM. The experience is currently 62. There are 62 post-graduate "no name pilots" in the pool. There are no pilots on the "10-12" class ready to graduate. There are 473 pilots in the "7-9" class with an exp of 56. I have emptied a recon group of its pilots and then pulled one replacement pilot from the pool. The "replacement" pilot showed up with an exp of 62. The I pulled more "replacements" from the pool - exp was between 67 and 55 so way above the "national experience" set in the editor! For comparison, the IJA pilot replacements show up with 34 exp, close to the "national experience" - I have "only" 78 IJA pilots in TRACOM. Edit: Now, I am suprised about the high recon skills of the "replacement" pilots! The number of pilots "In pool" dropped from 62 to 39 (WTH? 24 pilot spulled should leave 38 in pool, but well...) so those new guys in that recon squadron really came from the "no name pilots" replacements! I haven't read the whole thread, but saw this post. Have you tired with other types, like F pilots or B pilots? I've had no trouble training IJ pilots without ever using TRACOM. In fact I wouldn't want these pilots but would rather have high skill levels. Experience is of course very important, but for fighter and bomber pilots I cross train to bring up defensive skills and this also increases experience. I would not want higher experience pilots as replacements. They would not train as effectively for primary or secondary skills to level 70 which is my baseline. In fact I prefer pilots coming into training at 15-20exp. They then train skill much more quickly (usually to 40/70 air), and I can get them to near 50exp by training secondary low sweep or low ground bombing skill. I do think that pilot training is incredibly overpowered in AE if done well. I'd love to play a game with NO pilot training. It would be fun to see how that impacted combats. I predict less extreme results in both air combat, bombing of ground troops and airfields, and naval strikes. It might also bring night bombing into more historically realistic territory.

Kull -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 12:14:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert I'd love to play a game with NO pilot training. It would be fun to see how that impacted combats. I predict less extreme results in both air combat, bombing of ground troops and airfields, and naval strikes. It might also bring night bombing into more historically realistic territory. That's actually easy to do. As per the attachment, use the Editor and open the scenario you intend to play (Scen 1 is the example) 1) Click the "Scenario" button (top right, circled in Red) 2) Click the "Pilots" button (bottom left) 3) Change the "Exp" numbers of every Nationality to zero (or preferably some miniscule value like 4 or 5, just to make sure the code doesn't hiccup with all the zeros) 4) Then "File", "Save Scenario As...", (select name and number), and voila, the "Inexperienced Pilots Scenario" [:)] [image]local://upfiles/25668/8B1D04C3504446C38C45C082E0F3046D.jpg[/image]

obvert -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 1:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: obvert I'd love to play a game with NO pilot training. It would be fun to see how that impacted combats. I predict less extreme results in both air combat, bombing of ground troops and airfields, and naval strikes. It might also bring night bombing into more historically realistic territory. That's actually easy to do. As per the attachment, use the Editor and open the scenario you intend to play (Scen 1 is the example) 1) Click the "Scenario" button (top right, circled in Red) 2) Click the "Pilots" button (bottom left) 3) Change the "Exp" numbers of every Nationality to zero (or preferably some miniscule value like 4 or 5, just to make sure the code doesn't hiccup with all the zeros) 4) Then "File", "Save Scenario As...", (select name and number), and voila, the "Inexperienced Pilots Scenario" [:)] It's even easier to do than that. Just don't train pilots! [:D] I don't mean have no skill but have the national rates of starting experience and the pilot pools in game determine the outcome more than extensive in game pilot training. As a Japanese player I don't think I should have endless pools of skilled and experienced pilots, and I think the national rates should make more of a difference as the game continues, as it was designed. The Japanese player would have to really think about how to use those beginning experienced pilots. The Allied player would then have to consider attrition in a different manner, as well as where to put the starting Tigers and other aces. My theory is that it would slow the pace of game for both sides and make for a more dynamic and creative experience if coupled with PDU-off and DBB.

Kull -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 2:09:52 PM)
Your terminology wasn't helpful. "On-map" pilot training is clearly a whole other thing than "pilot training" which obviously includes the 12 month period before pilots arrive on map.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 3:56:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert It's even easier to do than that. Just don't train pilots! [:D] I don't mean have no skill but have the national rates of starting experience and the pilot pools in game determine the outcome more than extensive in game pilot training. As a Japanese player I don't think I should have endless pools of skilled and experienced pilots, and I think the national rates should make more of a difference as the game continues, as it was designed. The Japanese player would have to really think about how to use those beginning experienced pilots. The Allied player would then have to consider attrition in a different manner, as well as where to put the starting Tigers and other aces. My theory is that it would slow the pace of game for both sides and make for a more dynamic and creative experience if coupled with PDU-off and DBB. I agree. In my mod I tried to "model" the very selective but high quality pilot training program of the Japanese at the start of the war and its expansion in numbers and watering-down in length and quality during the war. So "my" IJN pilot schools get only 150 recruits per month in 1942 and they graduate with an exp of 45, but the quantity goes up and the quality down each year and in 1945 500 recruits enter flight school each month, but the graduate with only 25 exp.

Kull -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 4:35:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget I agree. In my mod I tried to "model" the very selective but high quality pilot training program of the Japanese at the start of the war and its expansion in numbers and watering-down in length and quality during the war. So "my" IJN pilot schools get only 150 recruits per month in 1942 and they graduate with an exp of 45, but the quantity goes up and the quality down each year and in 1945 500 recruits enter flight school each month, but the graduate with only 25 exp. That sounds like a sensible approach, especially since it uses the in-game pilot training system to address both the skill level at graduation and (just as important and maybe more so), the pilot intake numbers each month. Presumably this is a new change to your mod? The screen shot you posted earlier shows default 1944 pilots-per-month values for IJA/IJN.

RangerJoe -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/6/2020 8:41:15 PM)
If you want the higher skills but the lower experience, draw pilots into the appropriate type of aircraft. Then, send them to the reserves and put them into an inappropriate aircraft. Do that a few times, finally leaving them in the type of aircraft that you want them in. Every move from a bomber to a fighter or what ever such combination that you use will decrease the experience but leave the skills where they are at. Then they will learn new skills faster and will build up there experience. As the song goes, "I am so dizzy, my head is spinning!"

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/7/2020 10:17:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget I agree. In my mod I tried to "model" the very selective but high quality pilot training program of the Japanese at the start of the war and its expansion in numbers and watering-down in length and quality during the war. So "my" IJN pilot schools get only 150 recruits per month in 1942 and they graduate with an exp of 45, but the quantity goes up and the quality down each year and in 1945 500 recruits enter flight school each month, but the graduate with only 25 exp. That sounds like a sensible approach, especially since it uses the in-game pilot training system to address both the skill level at graduation and (just as important and maybe more so), the pilot intake numbers each month. Presumably this is a new change to your mod? The screen shot you posted earlier shows default 1944 pilots-per-month values for IJA/IJN. No, not a new change in my mod just one of the "undocumented features". The screenshots I posted are from my PBEM against IdahoNYer which is an unmodded DBB-C scenario 29.

rustysi -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/7/2020 4:22:24 PM)
quote: Just for the records, I would have let known my opponent first if I had been aware of the issue - I discovered it with this treat as I never really paid attention before. How would you know about it as its just been discovered recently? The effect was bought up a while ago in another thread, but just briefly. Add to that no one else brought up similar findings. One of the reasons I've continuing my current AI game was to investigate this further. I guess that point is now moot. I was then going to report upon it, but with the ending of support, I guess that point is moot also.[:D] I wouldn't be surprised if the Allies can do it as well, although that still needs to be verified. In that case as long as both players are aware of it, they can then decide what to do themselves.

durnedwolf -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/7/2020 4:51:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe If you want the higher skills but the lower experience, draw pilots into the appropriate type of aircraft. Then, send them to the reserves and put them into an inappropriate aircraft. Do that a few times, finally leaving them in the type of aircraft that you want them in. Every move from a bomber to a fighter or what ever such combination that you use will decrease the experience but leave the skills where they are at. Then they will learn new skills faster and will build up there experience. As the song goes, "I am so dizzy, my head is spinning!" I think I wanna try this idea - lol. I think I've always stopped my thought process at losing experience = bad. I bet it really increases the training time though.

RangerJoe -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/7/2020 5:48:25 PM)
They will get more experience flying missions, even if it is in a quiet sector.

Ian R -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (3/8/2020 2:25:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe They will get more experience flying missions, even if it is in a quiet sector. There are three or four places where the allied player can pile up some "operational training units" and produce a steam of experienced, high skill ASW, ground bombing, and search pilots. The restricted units can be used at some of the places. Exactly where they are depends on where the IJN subs go to sit outside your major ports, but the usual candidates are the areas just offshore (say to 4 hexes out) near: Colombo Sydney Townsville Pearl Hbr Victoria BC (Puget sound entry) Astoria San Francisco Los Angeles. Settings - ground bombing mission, 30% training. 30% of either ASW or search. 40 % rest. Altitude setting is 5-10k, range is 4 for naval search aircraft, and 8 max for ASW (i.e. actual then is 4). I do not put these groups on extended range. Set the human to patient mode.

Randy Stead -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (12/24/2020 6:40:17 PM)
I've read carefully through this thread and elsewhere but have not seen it discussed [perhaps because the answer is no?] Can putting your elite pilots into TRACOM influence, over time, the average experience of the graduating pilots? In other words, increase the experience levels as they come out, so you then have to spend less time in training when they are in units. Edit: Oops, I meant this post to go into the other current thread, "Training Command." I'm trying to see if I can delete it from this thread and put it into the other, more relevant thread. P.S. Never mind, it is probably best left here. P.P.S. Boy did I ever goof up. I missed the third and fourth pages of this discussion somehow [I have several tabs going at once] and see that my questions are answered here.

Ian R -> RE: TRACOM: Is it worth it? (1/26/2021 2:03:24 AM)
Second bump - do no-name pilots training in training command cost the Allied side 5HI per pilot per month, or does that only apply to the Japanese?

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