"Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (Full Version)

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WriterNotViking -> "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 7:32:35 PM)

I'm curious how some of you PBEM vets manage this aspect of the game. I'm starting my second Guadalcanal game, and I find myself spending a lot of time clicking around at the end of each turn, double-checking settings and looking for things I missed. Last time I prepared for a carrier battle, I must have checked every setting twenty times over. When I play the full campaign against a human, I don't want to spend an entire day on every turn.

Anyone use checklists to make sure they've covered everything? Any other habits or tricks to prevent mistakes without spending vast amounts of time scouring units, checking search arcs, patrol zones, CAP settings, LCU attack orders, and so forth?

Edit: title too long



btd64 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 7:39:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking

I'm curious how some of you PBEM vets manage this aspect of the game. I'm starting my second Guadalcanal game, and I find myself spending a lot of time clicking around at the end of each turn, double-checking settings and looking for things I missed. Last time I prepared for a carrier battle, I must have checked every setting twenty times over. When I play the full campaign against a human, I don't want to spend an entire day on every turn.

Anyone use checklists to make sure they've covered everything? Any other habits or tricks to prevent mistakes without spending vast amounts of time scouring units, checking search arcs, patrol zones, CAP settings, LCU attack orders, and so forth?

Edit: title too long


I use a notebook to take notes as I watch the combat replay, plan attacks, need to check bases and such....GP



WriterNotViking -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 7:50:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
I use a notebook to take notes as I watch the combat replay, plan attacks, need to check bases and such....GP


I can see that helping a lot with planning. Do you check off the notes you make to ensure you executed everything?



btd64 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 7:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
I use a notebook to take notes as I watch the combat replay, plan attacks, need to check bases and such....GP


I can see that helping a lot with planning. Do you check off the notes you make to ensure you executed everything?


Yes, I put a small box in front of each item and check it off when done....GP



cantona2 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 8:29:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64


quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking

I'm curious how some of you PBEM vets manage this aspect of the game. I'm starting my second Guadalcanal game, and I find myself spending a lot of time clicking around at the end of each turn, double-checking settings and looking for things I missed. Last time I prepared for a carrier battle, I must have checked every setting twenty times over. When I play the full campaign against a human, I don't want to spend an entire day on every turn.

Anyone use checklists to make sure they've covered everything? Any other habits or tricks to prevent mistakes without spending vast amounts of time scouring units, checking search arcs, patrol zones, CAP settings, LCU attack orders, and so forth?

Edit: title too long


I use a notebook to take notes as I watch the combat replay, plan attacks, need to check bases and such....GP


This and use Tracker as well.



dr.hal -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 8:53:37 PM)

It also helps to be systematic when doing a turn. For example if I'm the Allies I start at LA (lots of players start with HI as that's where the game opens for the Allies, but I like going back to the US coast), work my way around the coast, over to AK, then down to HI then follow the islands, etc. ending up with China (or USSR if it is in the game). If I take a break I note where I left off in a note pad (in the navy it's called a "wheel book") and pick it up upon return. If you develop a routine then it helps so that you don't miss anything. It comes with time, but keep it in mind. At some point you need to "call the question" and send the turn... you can second guess yourself to death, don't let that happen to you or the game becomes unenjoyable. Inevitably you will leave a thing or two out, but that's part of the game, enjoy....



btd64 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 9:07:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It also helps to be systematic when doing a turn. For example if I'm the Allies I start at LA (lots of players start with HI as that's where the game opens for the Allies, but I like going back to the US coast), work my way around the coast, over to AK, then down to HI then follow the islands, etc. ending up with China (or USSR if it is in the game). If I take a break I note where I left off in a note pad (in the navy it's called a "wheel book") and pick it up upon return. If you develop a routine then it helps so that you don't miss anything. It comes with time, but keep it in mind. At some point you need to "call the question" and send the turn... you can second guess yourself to death, don't let that happen to you or the game becomes unenjoyable. Inevitably you will leave a thing or two out, but that's part of the game, enjoy....


Yes, I go Left to right, like reading a book. But that's me. But the notebook is the first thing I check. The whole process takes half to one hour. Until it gets busy with amphibious and other operations....GP



Chickenboy -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 9:51:45 PM)

Starting a new turn (as Japanese), I:

1. Watch the combat replay. Take notes over any interesting combat sections.
2. Read the combat report. Take notes over any interesting combat sections.
3. Open the main map and go to those units / areas that just were involved in numbers 1 and 2 above. Resolve combat orders for these first and foremost. This allows me to move spotted subs out of the way or send ships to repair or revisit distinct combat orders for the next turn.
4. Open and read the Operations report. Read it in detail. Go immediately to those areas that bear additional investigation, including production / research updates. Update / change production system as needed.
5. Open the main map and review other units in play, including non-CS convoys, with particular attention to oil / fuel convoys. Review non-attacking LCUs objects/ preparations and movement orders.
6. Where is KB and what is its readiness? Every turn. Always.
7. Review the SigInt screen as a passing afterthought.

On non-big-combat days, this will take 1-1.5 hours. In preparation for / during big combat, easily double that.



kbfchicago -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 10:34:09 PM)

+1 to all of the above. I've learned from each and every one of those forum mates. But not the Gorn...never the Gorn. [;)]

For the campaign game I use two systematic patterns. Left to right and right to left (each with up/down nuances) it is in my humble opinion absolutely critical to develop a pattern. If no reason than maintain your sanity. I found that reversing the pattern every other turn (or so...not a hard and fast rule) helpful. I would get careless towards the end...and if I always went right to left (East to West) I short changed my attention to detail on the units/actions in the Far East. You just plain run out of mental energy...

In addition to above don't under estimate the benefit of "naming" your task forces. I don't use names as such...more objectives and notes about what I plan next for them. For example a supply convoy with escorts might be marked "Rtn Res, Drop SC,AKL" to remind me to reload and return with Resources and drop one or more of the escorts and the light cargo ship for duty at the destination port. Especially for Allies I'll also watch the incoming ships, e.g create a TF in Panama and name "CV,CA,4DD,2DDEc. It may initially be only the CA in the TF and the name tells me I'm waiting arrival of CV, 4DD in Panama and should move 2DDs from East Cost to Panama when they arrive, then sail the TF into the theater of operations once completed. I'll also name TFs with ships due for withdrawals to remind me to get them to a w/d port in time. You will find the penalty for missing w/d is steep and painful for Allies, especially early in the war. Also mark sub task forces for areas (sea names, relationship to convoy routes, land mass etc., e.g. "Tokyo Joe" or "SoJ" (Sea of Japan)) to help see in the TF listing which areas I've got covered and by how many subs, use this a little less once I discovered the "6" key to show patrol areas, but still useful.

My notebook notes tend to be strategic (Move next Sep Inf Rgt to Pago w/Ftr Unit, include mine layer @SF - EOM 2/42) or very tactical reminders (e.g. "return SoJ sub" noting heavy damage in combat and desire to get them out if I can before a repeat attack sinks them). Including (later in the war as allied) where various units are positioned or when/where arriving that I need to bring together for an invasion. Remembering where they all are, as they come in, marking them for the expected objective, moving them forward or re-stagging once complete with prior assignments can be...daunting. Expect the same is true for early war IJA. You are rewarded with a good combined arms approach (landing support, armor, combat engineers, artillery in addition to your Infantry or Marines). Your combat engineers are especially important and in short supply once you start rolling West.

My 2 cents...likely more detail than you were looking for, but moving from scenario to Campaign is (a glorious) beast [:D]

Kevin



jdsrae -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/19/2020 10:46:22 PM)

I have that feeling every turn, but am getting used to accepting that some little thing might go wrong each day.

As IJ I go around the map anti-clockwise, then after I’ve reviewed each region I check the ops report for other details, then combat report to remind me to check things like subs that might have just been hit.
I check industry tab quickly every turn just to stay in the habit to avoid aircraft RD factory blunders.

Usually nothing bad happens, but there have been a few times I’ve failed to set a CAP% or some other detail like that which has bitten me.
It’s just like Forrest Gump said when he ran through dog sh!t, sometimes it happens.

I am trying to spin one turn per evening so I watch the clock and try not to get bogged down anywhere.
I am usually getting the whole turn done in a about 2 hours during the week, a bit more on weekends when I might stay up a little later and check things that take more time like pilot training.



pontiouspilot -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 3:01:14 AM)

All good advice above. If you play enough much becomes instinctive. I manage 3 PBEMS without tracker.

I always start each turn in checking the weather map and then checking the low resolution map with only TFs turned on. I then check intelligence and then operations reports. I never try to check everything every turn. You learn what is important and check that every turn.

If you are playing Japan you must apply different checks for supply and industry....that is a book to itself!



ITAKLinus -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 9:07:32 AM)

I don't use tracker.

My general arrangement of the game is to simplify everything to the maximum extent.
I have an excel with all the info I need. Some sheets are for basic information, defined at the beginning of the game (such as oil convoys routes), others are temporary and/or done everyday (such as total fuel&supply level or the enemy's AV in besieged Sidney).

I check the moonlight and weather forecasts.

I go clockwise checking every "macro-area" beginning with Onshu.

First, though, I check the OpRep to see whether I have naval units out of the shipyards or units arriving/withdrawing.

Macro-areas I do check:
I) Onshu
II) Marshall
III) South Pacific (PagoPago, Figi, etcetc)
IV) Australia
V) DEI
VI) Burma
VII) China
VIII) Kurili and Shakhalin
IX) Internal areas such as Marianne, Philippines etcetc

Then I check the industry panel. Just to be sure everything is ok.

Then I check the SigInt.

Finally, I do a very quick tour again. Very quick. Just to spot something I might have missed before.


I send the turn.


Average turn (including replay): 30-45min


In general, I tend to have the simpliest posture. Always. I value simplicity more than anything else.

I also tend not to use CS convoys (I have them for Kurili/Shakhalin only). It takes few more clicks but it's not a big deal and it gives me more control.


Every single turn I do, I take few key notes, mainly for statistical purposes (such as the VP ratio etcetc).

Once every week (real life, not game), I do a very long turn of 3hrs defining the most important element of the next week. On average, it corresponds to a game week, so it's fine.

I have a very strong, albeit flexible, planning done from the beginning, therefore, I am in the "autopilot" mode for the average turn.


My organisation includes:

A) Extremely solid planning before 7th Dec. I arrive to the point of doing a GANTT for operations with all milestones etcetc
B) Concentration of assets. F.ex.: I prefer to have say 2xENG per-island in the Marshall for a while, I finish the forts/ports/AFs there and then I move to the Gilberts. It eases a lot the management.
C) All-or-nothing approach to air defence: my bases are either not defended of defended with very high numbers. It reduces the amount of clicks required every turn.
D) I don't ship little quantities. Never.
E) I don't get entangled in all the minutiae: f.ex. I do warships' upgrades massively few times per-year. The idea is that if I have 10 DDs having an upgrade in Jan and 10 in Feb, I do all 20 in Feb. Same with CVs. I prefer doing the upgrades all together (f.ex. in '42 there are the two shokakus which can be upgraded in June 42 and the other ones in July: I do all the CVs in July).
F) ASW and NavS are set up once for good. It takes few months to have everything set up, but when you have a timeline you don't have to "think": you just know that on the 1st week of April, for example, you have to move GROUP-ABC in LOCATION-ABC. Not a big deal.
G) My convoys are outrageously large. It takes a lot sometimes to form them up and to load/unload but I don't want to be bothered by billions of little convoys all around the map. F.ex.: Truk is a hub supplying Marshalls and Gilberts. Let's say the monthly supply I want in the area is 40k. Instead of sending 10k supplies every week, I send 200k + 200k in two convoys and I have roughly one year worth of supplies in the place.



Alpha77 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 1:01:57 PM)

Well for my part I only playing 1 PBM at the moment - it is in 6/1943 now as IJ Scen 2.
I do not take notes, every 2-3 turns I look into tracker tho. I made quite some mistakes which a human opponent will exploit. He did tell me that he takes notes btw. Together with Allied intel,recon, search, contect reports I would be not surprised if he knows a portion of what units I have at certain places by now eg. Truk or Guam etc.

One must for sure get rid of some "sloppy" habbits developed in AI games. Where you can get away with it often. I also admit that logistics and supplying bases etc. meanwhile take a toll. When it gets more work than play feel (for me others might enjoy just that part) I doubt the decission playing a full PBM sometimes. Quite amazing others manage even to play 2 full PBMs at the same time, especially as Japan in scen1 I think one must have some balls.
Scen2 gives some presents which help a bit out ( 1 fictional army group, more factories, more pilots and more ships, mostly the Shimakaze series. And 2 Aganos I believe, which are quite weak anyway). But Scen2 is still in the realm of historical "what if" contrary to "ironman" and co.

Edit, but I rename fleets - eg. I use small hints what they are supposed to do or if they have an admiral. I do not want a fleet with a good, expensive admiral set to auto disband for example. Also I use often 1 more click to not refuel - for Japan, less for Allies as they swim in fuel anyway. I do not want big tankers to refuel in the HIs for example if they run a convoi route from the resource areas back to home. They shall refuel where the fuel is produced eg. at Balikpapan etc. Also I transport not so much fuel to Rabaul - it is quite a long way down there - so I am most often short of fuel to fully refuel everyone. If BB Nagato is sceduled to be used in the upper salomones for example then half a fuel load would be enough for her. Lately the Nagato and some escorts were fully refueled (due to mistake from me or click fatigue?) at Rabaul now I have only 2000 fuel left.



Trugrit -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 1:30:44 PM)


It is a matter of gaining experience in the game. You will get faster with time.
It becomes almost instinctive to look a unit and see what is critical very quickly.

Many players use a pattern to give orders as noted above.
I like to move from units in contact with the enemy or in potential contact with the enemy
to rear area units in a clockwise fashion. I will come back and check the ones in potential
enemy contact at least twice.I also use a simple check list.

I use computer add-on tools to save a lot of time as well
I use Combat Reporter and Tracker which compliment each other.

Tracker provides a lot of useful information quickly.

Tracker is not just about industry it is also very useful for what I consider the most
complex and time consuming aspect of the game – Pilots, Pilot training, Air Groups and Aircraft.

As an example you may want to ask the question:
Which of my Air Groups flying escort missions has the most fatigue and is it getting worse?

In the game you will need to go to the land based air groups and sort for fatigue and then
sort again for escort mission and remember or write both down.

Then go to the naval air groups and do the same.
That is about eight total mouse clicks in and out as well as write down time.

Tracker can do both at the same time as in the example below.
About four mouse clicks with one more for the history trend.

You can see I’ve set the primary mission to escort and sorted for most fatigue.
All the groups flying escort for all the nationalities, except the enemy of course, are listed
by highest fatigue.

As shown, Tracker also has an air group history function by turn that you can call up.

In this case we can see that for this air group during turns 3 through 9 fatigue was rising
and morale was falling. I should have headed this trend off much earlier. My bad.

[image]local://upfiles/49386/693727B397BB432286F3335C77213C4A.jpg[/image]



ITAKLinus -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 1:57:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well for my part I only playing 1 PBM at the moment - it is in 6/1943 now as IJ Scen 2.
I do not take notes, every 2-3 turns I look into tracker tho. I made quite some mistakes which a human opponent will exploit. He did tell me that he takes notes btw. Together with Allied intel,recon, search, contect reports I would be not surprised if he knows a portion of what units I have at certain places by now eg. Truk or Guam etc.

One must for sure get rid of some "sloppy" habbits developed in AI games. Where you can get away with it often. I also admit that logistics and supplying bases etc. meanwhile take a toll. When it gets more work than play feel (for me others might enjoy just that part) I doubt the decission playing a full PBM sometimes. Quite amazing others manage even to play 2 full PBMs at the same time, especially as Japan in scen1 I think one must have some balls.
Scen2 gives some presents which help a bit out ( 1 fictional army group, more factories, more pilots and more ships, mostly the Shimakaze series. And 2 Aganos I believe, which are quite weak anyway). But Scen2 is still in the realm of historical "what if" contrary to "ironman" and co.

Edit, but I rename fleets - eg. I use small hints what they are supposed to do or if they have an admiral. I do not want a fleet with a good, expensive admiral set to auto disband for example. Also I use often 1 more click to not refuel - for Japan, less for Allies as they swim in fuel anyway. I do not want big tankers to refuel in the HIs for example if they run a convoi route from the resource areas back to home. They shall refuel where the fuel is produced eg. at Balikpapan etc. Also I transport not so much fuel to Rabaul - it is quite a long way down there - so I am most often short of fuel to fully refuel everyone. If BB Nagato is sceduled to be used in the upper salomones for example then half a fuel load would be enough for her. Lately the Nagato and some escorts were fully refueled (due to mistake from me or click fatigue?) at Rabaul now I have only 2000 fuel left.




Oh yes I rename fleets as well. I forgot this important element.


For example. I have two convoys on what I call the "Holy Route", meaning Singapore-Onshu for fuel/oil.

I have made the calculations in the image attached before the 7th dec turn.

The estimation I made was to be able to start shipping stuff from 01-APR-1942.

After various calculations, I decided to set a target of roughly 4.5M fuel/oil shipped for tankers and 2.5M for xAKs before fall '43. Very high target, to be fair, but that's it.

Then I created the convoys and I named them. I use a very simple notation.
Since I don't run CS convoys in general, I have to manually load them. I have the rule that when I click the magic "load fuel" or "load oil" at Singapore, I rename the convoy.
For ex. The name for the tankers can be: "SR - F 3/25 - O 2/25".
Where:
A) "SR" = "SacraRotta" ("Holy Route" in italian")
B) "F" = "Fuel"
C) "3/25" = 3rd trip of the 25 forecasted
D) "O" = "Oil"
E) "2/25" = 2nd trip of the 25 forecasted

Now, I just have to add up the 3 and the 2 to know I have made 5 trips in total so far out of the maximum 25 for both oil and fuel (25 total, not 25 each). Since I cannot possibly know/calculate the availability of either fuel or oil in Singapore, I decided to note separately Fuel and Oil shipments.

It's quite easy to rename convoys in this way for several things and it makes impossible to do double shipments or to send less stuff. On the other side, once you have decided you want to have a certain amount, you don't have to take notes whatsoever since the "notes" are your convoys' names.

I do it mainly for Fuel/Oil and for Supplies.

For units I try to do things in a different way if anyhow possible. Say that I want to bring from Onshu some AAs to two different fronts. I just place them in different harbors and I load them in different convoys called f.ex. "AA MAGWE". So, it takes me basically zero time spent on checking stuff: I just send them in strategic at the harbor on one turn and I make the two convoys. Nothing more.



WriterNotViking -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/20/2020 6:12:23 PM)


I'm shocked by this flood of great advice. Thank you all for sharing your practices and tricks. It's very helpful to see such a variety of systems explained in some detail. I feel better prepared for a full campaign.

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
Yes, I put a small box in front of each item and check it off when done....GP


I like this method. It's giving me an idea for a spreadsheet template I can print a bunch of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2
This and use Tracker as well.


I had Tracker working at one point, but I never got into the habit of using it before I gave WITP:AE a break for a while. I will commit to getting it up and running again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal
At some point you need to "call the question" and send the turn... you can second guess yourself to death, don't let that happen to you or the game becomes unenjoyable. Inevitably you will leave a thing or two out, but that's part of the game, enjoy....


This might be the most important takeaway from this whole thread. I wouldn't quite call myself a perfectionist, but I do have a fairly low tolerance for my own mistakes. It seems a full campaign game will be an excellent opportunity for some personal growth in this area. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot
If you are playing Japan you must apply different checks for supply and industry....that is a book to itself!


One big reason I don't intend to play a full Japanese campaign any time soon. I try to follow along when Japanese AARs talk about the economy, but it's mostly clear as pea soup to me. That time will come!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
Tracker can do both at the same time as in the example below.


I highly appreciate the brief Tracker tutorial here. I have a solid appetite for data, and it's clear Tracker will go a long way towards satisfying it.

Thanks again, everyone.



Alpha77 -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/21/2020 12:19:38 PM)

Btw. What is missing in this regard in WitpAE is an "interactive" ops and combat report. Even HOI and the AGEOD series have this.. what I mean you click on an event and it brings you to the location the event happened. Also some streamlining of interface and some bigger buttons. It is easy to missclick important functions as it is now.

Also more feedback why eg. a certain mission did not fly or a fleet is in range of your bombers but gets not attacked. There can be severall reasons for this, which the game should tell us. Eg. weather, low detection value, low supply, low morale, low exp, leader check failed etc.



WriterNotViking -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/21/2020 7:06:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Btw. What is missing in this regard in WitpAE is an "interactive" ops and combat report.


This would be very convenient. Imagine being able to click on coordinates in sigint reports and going straight there. We probaby shouldn't hold our breaths for such a change, though.



Trugrit -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/22/2020 11:07:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Btw. What is missing in this regard in WitpAE is an "interactive" ops and combat report.


This would be very convenient. Imagine being able to click on coordinates in sigint reports and going straight there. We probaby shouldn't hold our breaths for such a change, though.


Use Combat Reporter


[image]local://upfiles/49386/15CEA36DAB3A430E895904D95A28D717.jpg[/image]



WriterNotViking -> RE: "Just sent the turn... Now what did I miss?" (2/22/2020 6:06:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
Use Combat Reporter


Well, this is glorious. I'd seen Combat Reporter mentioned before, but to my shame I never looked into it. This looks like it will streamline my gameplay considerably. Thanks for the tip!



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