HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (Full Version)

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HamburgerMeat -> HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/23/2020 4:28:34 PM)

This AAR will mostly be focused on the Eastern Front, though I will address some other fronts to give some additional pointers and things to consider when playing the game.

This is my first game against Cpuncher, but based on his opening turn I suspect that is he an advanced player, as he has taken Poland in turn one, substantially damaged one Chinese army, and destroyed a Chinese corp.

As you can see, I prefer moving the army out of Changsha to instead occupy either of the mountain hexes to the east, as the mountain hexes provide additional defensive bonuses compared to the city



[image]local://upfiles/57366/5601AD745EC64BF59F6B7A81149AC171.jpg[/image]



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/23/2020 4:33:26 PM)

As for the Mediterranean, I occupy all four hexes around Gibraltar so as to deny Axis fleet movement.

[image]local://upfiles/57366/E27C0F9D903843ACA2C5B3F6D44DA6EB.jpg[/image]



Christolos -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/23/2020 6:35:13 PM)

Looking forward to this as I still have a lot to learn. Thanks HamburgerMeat! [:)]

I also hope you don't mind a few posts with comments and questions interspersed throughout your AAR...

I tried the Poland in one turn conquest in a PBEM and it failed so miserably that it actually took me 4 turns to capture Poland. After the first turn, I was in position (adjacent to Warsaw from the West) with two Panzer units, but did not attack Warsaw since the odds were quite unfavorable. I thought at least that I could for sure capture it the next turn...but I was plagued by bad weather and very bad dice rolls to the point where I could not capture Warsaw until turn 4!!! What an embarrassment that was! [:(].

Before this, I could always get Warsaw and Poland in two turns, as most if not all players can, but ever since then, I make it a point not to try it (the one turn capture) anymore.

I could be wrong in that if the one turn capture attempt doesn't work on the first turn, a player attempting it could at least count on getting Warsaw and all of Poland on the next turn. Perhaps it was just super bad luck coupled with my mistake to not attack with the Panzers despite the bad odds...

C



eightroomofelixir -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/23/2020 6:38:51 PM)

Looking forward for the series!

As the AAR goes, would you mind to also post some of your tech investment, diplomacy, as well as the convoy choices?



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/24/2020 1:20:33 AM)

Until the US enters the war, I tend to use diplomacy reactively to try to prevent countries such as Spain and Turkey from joining the axis. The only exception is France, as I might try to go for a chit or 2 for US diplomacy if possible.

As for early game research

UK: drop artillery weapons, pick up advanced aircraft. Turn after that pick up ground attack weapons
USSR: drop anti tank, advanced aircraft, and production tech. Pick up infantry weapons, and for the next purchase, an engineer.
China: drop advanced aircraft, get infantry weapons
India: drop advanced tanks, pick up ground attack weapons
USA: drop artillery weapons, pick up advanced tanks and ground attack weapons, then industrial tech over the next few turns





Tanaka -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/25/2020 4:14:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HamburgerMeat

As for the Mediterranean, I occupy all four hexes around Gibraltar so as to deny Axis fleet movement.

[image]local://upfiles/57366/E27C0F9D903843ACA2C5B3F6D44DA6EB.jpg[/image]


Wait I did not know this was even allowed? Is this not gamey?



Marcinos1985 -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/25/2020 7:56:58 PM)

Thank you for the series.
1.Could you elaborate in which region this chinese corps got beaten?
2. These two italian ships in the screenshot, you have an idea where are they sailling to?
3. USSR vs luftwaffe - you are going to use solely aa units and tech in first years?



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/25/2020 8:38:11 PM)

1: the corp 2 hexes east from Changsha
2: no idea, probably to disrupt shipping somewhere
3: correct. I drop advanced aircraft on turn 1 to fund infantry weapons, and rely on upgrades and AA units.



Helsingor -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/25/2020 10:21:00 PM)

Thanks for doing this AAR, HamburgerMeat. Always welcome a chance to learn things from experienced players!
I don’t want to overburden you, but if you happen to look at what the reports tell you about your opponent’s choices, it would be interesting to see how that might play into your strategic decision-making.
Thanks



Marcinos1985 -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/27/2020 3:57:12 PM)

Will this game be restarted because of LRAT fix? Japs may be hardly playable otherwise.



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/27/2020 4:33:31 PM)

I messaged Cpuncher about it. I am in favor of restarting, but if he wants to continue I am fine with that. Not sure how effective japan can be without LRAs though



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (2/27/2020 4:34:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helsingor

Thanks for doing this AAR, HamburgerMeat. Always welcome a chance to learn things from experienced players!
I don’t want to overburden you, but if you happen to look at what the reports tell you about your opponent’s choices, it would be interesting to see how that might play into your strategic decision-making.
Thanks


Sure thing, I will try to note observations and predictions



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/2/2020 6:02:57 PM)

Hi guys,

I didn't know this thread existed, and I don't remember I've actually ever posted in this forum. Anyway, I should post some thoughts from my side to better the discussions here.

About myself: I'm probably one of the better players. This conclusion is drawn from the fact that I'm very surprised that some of the basic moves I know that many of you here don't, in addition to that I haven't had much luck to find a loss recently.

About the game:
1. All decent allied player will sit 4 ships in those 4 hex until the Italians are in the war. Whatever is allowed by the game I consider fair. I do hope this can be fixed though in a patch, that allied ships shouldn't be allowed to end their turn in them, or be automatically moved out of them. This would allow the Italians some options, et al move the corps from IEA to NA.
2. Concerning IEA, there will be no hope against any good allied player who understands supply, no matter how much Italy invests there.
3. That's why I'm using the only turn I can move 2 Italian units out of the Mediterranean with 2 unsinkable scouts for the German subs. They will be crucial to the survival of some of them (again, how can you guys not know this?[;)]).
4. Just a general thought about Eastern Front, I feel if it's between 2 good players, Germany should be able to capture all 3 fronts within a reasonable time frame (variable being how fast USA/UK can put a substantial force in W Europe in 42). I hope HamburgerMeat can prove me wrong. This, though unhistorical, is required for game balance to give Axis a chance to win.
5. This brings the thought, that if we want to improve historical accuracy, we have to change victory conditions. I hope it can be made that it's a DV for Axis if they can hold Berlin, Rome, Tokyo (and maybe 1 or 2 Allied major capitals) by 45 or 46. That way we can substantially improve the historical accuracy of the game by giving Russia a much better chance. (IMHO, if historically the Axis were able to sign a peace treaty without losing any of their capitals, it should be considered a huge victory for them, and the world as we know today would've been hugely different...WW3 might have happened in the 70's and we are already back in stone age...and we wouldn't be here playing this game, LOL)

BTW, game with HamburgerMeat is stopped until the bugs are fixed. I see the Hot Fix is out.



Marcinos1985 -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/3/2020 6:39:10 AM)

Ad.4 by all 3 fronts you mean Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad? And what you mean by ‚Reasonable timeframe’ 1943?



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/3/2020 4:39:46 PM)

Yes, Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad, in about 2 offensive seasons before the 2nd winter, so probably before 43. If Germany ever get into a stalemate against Russia, I think it's game over for the Axis. US/UK can put a substantial force in W Europe some time in 42, and Germany need to divert at least 2 HQs and their units (so about 10 or more units from the East, in addition to what were already stationed at the west) to deal with it. So Germany need to make sure she can continue to advance on the East (especially the southern oil fields if they haven't been captured already) with the remaining forces. This is my take on the Eastern Front, assuming both players are good. I'd love to have anyone prove me wrong.



BillRunacre -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/3/2020 6:09:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

5. This brings the thought, that if we want to improve historical accuracy, we have to change victory conditions. I hope it can be made that it's a DV for Axis if they can hold Berlin, Rome, Tokyo (and maybe 1 or 2 Allied major capitals) by 45 or 46. That way we can substantially improve the historical accuracy of the game by giving Russia a much better chance. (IMHO, if historically the Axis were able to sign a peace treaty without losing any of their capitals, it should be considered a huge victory for them, and the world as we know today would've been hugely different...WW3 might have happened in the 70's and we are already back in stone age...and we wouldn't be here playing this game, LOL)


Hi

Good post, thanks for making it.

On this point, this is the concept behind the Race for Victory campaigns, as they were made intentionally for multiplayer. Perhaps give them a go as their end date is sooner, see the last page of their Strategy Guides for further details. [:)]



Tanaka -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/3/2020 6:39:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

Hi guys,

I didn't know this thread existed, and I don't remember I've actually ever posted in this forum. Anyway, I should post some thoughts from my side to better the discussions here.

About myself: I'm probably one of the better players. This conclusion is drawn from the fact that I'm very surprised that some of the basic moves I know that many of you here don't, in addition to that I haven't had much luck to find a loss recently.

About the game:
1. All decent allied player will sit 4 ships in those 4 hex until the Italians are in the war. Whatever is allowed by the game I consider fair. I do hope this can be fixed though in a patch, that allied ships shouldn't be allowed to end their turn in them, or be automatically moved out of them. This would allow the Italians some options, et al move the corps from IEA to NA.
2. Concerning IEA, there will be no hope against any good allied player who understands supply, no matter how much Italy invests there.
3. That's why I'm using the only turn I can move 2 Italian units out of the Mediterranean with 2 unsinkable scouts for the German subs. They will be crucial to the survival of some of them (again, how can you guys not know this?[;)]).
4. Just a general thought about Eastern Front, I feel if it's between 2 good players, Germany should be able to capture all 3 fronts within a reasonable time frame (variable being how fast USA/UK can put a substantial force in W Europe in 42). I hope HamburgerMeat can prove me wrong. This, though unhistorical, is required for game balance to give Axis a chance to win.
5. This brings the thought, that if we want to improve historical accuracy, we have to change victory conditions. I hope it can be made that it's a DV for Axis if they can hold Berlin, Rome, Tokyo (and maybe 1 or 2 Allied major capitals) by 45 or 46. That way we can substantially improve the historical accuracy of the game by giving Russia a much better chance. (IMHO, if historically the Axis were able to sign a peace treaty without losing any of their capitals, it should be considered a huge victory for them, and the world as we know today would've been hugely different...WW3 might have happened in the 70's and we are already back in stone age...and we wouldn't be here playing this game, LOL)

BTW, game with HamburgerMeat is stopped until the bugs are fixed. I see the Hot Fix is out.



Interesting stuff. Which Italian units are you speaking of moving out? Agreed that the allies should not be able to just sit on those hexes.



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/3/2020 8:02:50 PM)

I think he means the battleship and the heavy cruiser (west of Gibraltar on the map)



Calaf -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/7/2020 4:55:18 PM)

"5. This brings the thought, that if we want to improve historical accuracy, we have to change victory conditions. I hope it can be made that it's a DV for Axis if they can hold Berlin, Rome, Tokyo (and maybe 1 or 2 Allied major capitals) by 45 or 46. That way we can substantially improve the historical accuracy of the game by giving Russia a much better chance."

Yes! I was surprised to find, when I first read the rules, that the V conditions didn't have such an option.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/18/2020 7:09:48 PM)

As for now the game is updated and the LRAT being fixed, will you guys continued this Allies-centered AAR thread, or to open a new thread for the matter?



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (3/26/2020 9:58:12 PM)

I've had a very busy month, but I am back and available. I'll just continue using this thread



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/9/2020 3:57:17 PM)

Hamburger is probably busy, so I will start posting from the Axis side. Game has been restarted though we haven't progressed very far. We are at Jan 1940 right now. I didn't take any screen shots earlier but will do so from here on.

BTW, server's been constantly giving communication errors recently and that's frustrating.

Let me start by saying this is one of the best WW2 strategy games I've ever played (and I've played a lot of them). It's almost like playing Chess, you have to move your pieces to the exact spot with the exact sequence. After having played at least 15 MP games and numerous hot seats against myself I am still optimizing my first turn moves. The strategic decisions you make will have profound impact down the road and there are many of them to make. So kudos to the developers. But then, I also have many things to complain...well maybe another time for that.

Also Kudos to whoever enjoy playing this game. This game is not for a beer and pretzel type of guy.

So, WW2 has started and Germany took Poland in 1 turn...



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/9/2020 6:15:49 PM)

There is a very detailed post by LuciusSulla on how to take Poland in 1 turn: please search it up, I'm not allowed to post links yet (It's titled: Repeatable Strategy to Conquer Warsaw on turn 1)

However I use a somewhat different method. Where LuciusSulla use 4 Tank attacks, 1 Tac B, and 1 Corp attack to take Warsaw, I use 3 Tank, 1 Army and 1 Tac B. It's very important to attack in this particular order too. If the 3 Tank attacks can generate 1 dmg, then you are guaranteed to take Warsaw. Even the 3 tank attacks fail to do any dmg, you still have a chance.

This plan has about the same chance to take Warsaw, but use far less other units, which need to move/upgrade to be ready for France and others.

Won't go into details on the research here as the game is ongoing. Just say I had to cancel a lot of them to get the MPPs for upgrading many units on turn 1.



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/9/2020 6:48:02 PM)

Game Tips 1: Micro-manage HQs.
I use auto-assist for all HQs. At the start of a turn I detach all units, then attach each unit 1 at a time just before them to attack/move. If available Armies/Tanks/Paras/Specials are attached to the highest rated HQs then Ftrs, then Bombers, then Corps. Units that won't attack or may not be attacked will stay un-attached. In general units are for strength dmg dealing are attached to higher rated HQs while those for morale/entrenchment reduction are attached to lower ones or not attached at all.



Elessar2 -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 12:33:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

There is a very detailed post by LuciusSulla on how to take Poland in 1 turn: please search it up, I'm not allowed to post links yet (It's titled: Repeatable Strategy to Conquer Warsaw on turn 1)

However I use a somewhat different method. Where LuciusSulla use 4 Tank attacks, 1 Tac B, and 1 Corp attack to take Warsaw, I use 3 Tank, 1 Army and 1 Tac B. It's very important to attack in this particular order too. If the 3 Tank attacks can generate 1 dmg, then you are guaranteed to take Warsaw. Even the 3 tank attacks fail to do any dmg, you still have a chance.

This plan has about the same chance to take Warsaw, but use far less other units, which need to move/upgrade to be ready for France and others.

Won't go into details on the research here as the game is ongoing. Just say I had to cancel a lot of them to get the MPPs for upgrading many units on turn 1.


This is an argument to randomize the "automatic" setup upon a DoW.



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 4:32:59 AM)

For the sake of this thread that HambugerMeat wanted it to be an educational one, I will talk more about game Tips and Choices/decisions (for beginners/intermediate players) rather than much detailed AAR.

For Germany, speed is of utmost importance. It must use its superb military assets to gain real estate as quickly as possible. The plan is to take Poland in 1 or 2 Axis turns (All turn numbers I use here will be Axis turns, not game turns). Dow Denmark on turn 2 and take it on turn 3. Dow and take Belgium on Turn 4, and move into northern France on Turn 5 (late Dec 1939)...

Although taking Poland in 1 turn is better, taking it in 2 turns is not bad either. It allows a reduced Russian mobilization when they agree to the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (if you take Poland in 1 turn then Russia won't have the option to turn down the pact but won't take the mobilization penalty either), and some extra National Morale Bonus by finishing up a few isolated Polish troops. Since you only need to leave a couple Armies/Tanks plus enough corps to finish off Poland in turn 2, majority of them can still be operated to Belgium border and upgraded, and take Belgium in Turn 4.

To Dow Denmark on Turn 2, I would move 1 corps to its border and upgrade my Med Bomber on turn 1. Sometimes 1 of the 2 Tac Bombers is not needed to take Warsaw and I would also move it within range of Copenhagen. Upon Dow, Denmark will have a strength 1 garrison which for most part can be taken out by the upgraded Med Bomber. Occasionally the Med Bomber will fail then the back up Tac Bomber if it's available. If not then I will have to move all 3 bombers in range to take it out in Turn 3, which will really hurt the Belgium/France side...luckily this hasn't happened in any of my PBEM games yet.

To Dow Denmark seems a no brainer to me. It only mobilize Russia a little bit, but not US. For most part I'm more concerned of US mobilization than Russia. I'm pretty confident in defeating Russia in the current game setup, while early US mobilization can be a huge problem down the road.



Marcinos1985 -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 8:29:01 AM)

Glad to see you both playing again. Your opening seems to be pretty refined. Allies probably don't have a straightforward answer to this.
Your confidence regarding Russia is interesting, let's see what HM will do.



HamburgerMeat -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 12:21:36 PM)

My schedule just freed up significantly, so I should be back in business.

Cpuncher is the toughest opponent I have faced since zzmzzm. My turns will have to be thorough.

France will fall in February-March 1940, about 1-2 turns faster than usual. However, the speed of his push also reduces his ability to protect the Italian navy as it is not possible to get Maritime bombers in time

Still, it is a net gain for the axis as they get French MPPs 1-2 turns earlier



[image]local://upfiles/57366/2F79E971EFD6414AADF489DADBBB2C3A.jpg[/image]



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 8:28:03 PM)

A quick recap of what happened so far

Sep.1, 1939
After destroying several Polish units and damaging a few others, German panzers roll onto the streets of Warsaw. For the first time, the world witnessed Blitzkrieg in full display. The proud Polish Cavalry, who had a glorious past, were no match of the panzers. Poland surrendered, and got divided up between Germany and Russia. All was quiet on the western front.
Italy reorganized its limited resources to focus on new researches, while sending a small naval detachment to the Atlantic.
Japan began an aggressive campaign to put as much pressure on China as possible. It destroyed a Chinese corps southwest of Nanchang, and severely mauled an Army northeast of Chengchow. I corps took the undefended Pakhoi. Work began to upgrade the bombers on its carrier fleet.

Sep. 29, 1939
Germany operated its armies to the Belgium border and began preparing for an invasion. Meanwhile war is declared on Denmark and German bombers dissuaded a small garrison from putting up a fight. A German corps marched close to Copenhagen. Heavy Cruiser or Pocket Battleship Deutschland was spotted off the southeast coast of Iceland and hunted by multiple allied units. She was able to escape for now.
Italy put all of its limited resources into more research.
Japan mauled a Chinese corps northeast of Changsha while destroying a newly arrived unit northeast of Chengchow. With a Chinese corps taking up positions in the mountains north of Pakhoi, attack on Nanning was halted. This Chinese corps must be removed at all cost, or Okamura HQ can't move into Parhoi to keep the supplies moving freely for the attack on Nanning. Luckily all carriers have finished their upgrading and will be ready to deal damage to this corps.



Cpuncher -> RE: HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Cpuncher (Axis) Educational AAR (1.06) (4/10/2020 9:19:05 PM)

Oct 27, 1939
Germany upgraded all of its armies to prepare for the invasion of Belgium and France. War was declared on Luxembourg and a German army marched into the capitol. Luxembourg surrendered. An allied bomber unit was spotted nearby and together with a couple allied fighter units trying to defend it, were badly mauled by the heroic and superior German air force. Copenhagen was occupied and Denmark surrendered. Deutschland was again caught by the allied ships and was badly damaged. There was to be no escape this time. Prepare to scuttle the ship!
Italy continued to pour all of her resources into research.
Japan kept on attacking on all fronts. Significant progress was made towards both Chengchow and Changsha with a couple Chinese units destroyed. Against all of Japan's carrier borne aircraft and superior Japanese ground units, the Chinese corps occupying the mountains north of Pakhoi defended heroically and only suffered partial damage.

Nov 24, 1939
War began on the western front! Germany took fort Eben Emael and quickly overwhelm the Belgium force. There was no chance for them. Belgium surrendered. A few German units already attacked into France and dealt some damage. The weather had be good and our air force had been busy flying sorties the whole time. No allied air force ever bothered to show up. Things were not looking good for the allies. Meanwhile sad news arrived that Deutschland was sunk before she could beach herself on the southern coast of Iceland, not too far from the port of Julianehåb. Captain bid farewell to the Führer in his last telegram and decided to go down with the ship. Deutschland's last salvo hit a British BC and damaged her. There has been much talk to change the name of the ship to Lützow to prevent the name "Deutschland" being sunk, which is really bad for morale...
Italy is fast preparing to join the war. Troops were sent to reinforce North Africa.
To the surprise of the Japanese high command, the Chinese abandoned the key mountain position north of Pakhoi. Now the road to Nanning is open. Meanwhile, Chinese units near Changsha and Chengchow continued to be hammered, and both cities were to fall soon...Japan is preparing attacks on the Chinese units west of Wuhan.



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