Units routing to weird locations. (Full Version)

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xhoel -> Units routing to weird locations. (2/23/2020 4:48:20 PM)

Posting for Bed John again, since he can't post pictures.

HQs and LW airbases are routing to weird locations even though there are better towns, they could rout too. In the example below you will see the position of 5 HQs and 1 LW air base at the start of turn 11. The Soviets moved to the German rear during their go on turn 11, which lead to these units routing. Now, instead of routing towards Novogorod or the vicinity (much closer and the logical place), they routed to Finland, through Leningrad [&:] , in an impossible feat. Adding to that is the fact that 3 of those HQs didn't even rout to a town, but to a random clear hex.

This is not only annoying, but also game breaking as these 5 HQs are now stuck in Finland and have to be moved by naval transport to East Prussia, before marching back north again, leaving the units under their command stuck with their heads up their behinds. Please fix the routing routines.

Turn 11, HQs that will rout marked in black:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/RvBHNDu.jpg[/img]

Turn 12, routed HQs, in Finland:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yvIb5tD.jpg[/img]




BrianG -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/23/2020 5:12:56 PM)

if you ask me rout rules did not need any changing in the first place.

I would only change to say mech cant retreat into non road mountain hexes.

otherwise it was fine as before.



xhoel -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/23/2020 5:24:35 PM)

I agree with you BrianG.

I like the fact that units from ports don't magically rout when they lose a battle and what you say makes sense, but other than that, I didn't see a problem with the old routing rules.



BrianG -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/23/2020 6:14:56 PM)

and as I recall now, I actually think too many units were routing in the old rout routine where they had multiple retreat hexes unblocked(no zoc) to the rear. So instead of moving 2 3 hexes to an empty spot, the unit would rout.

not always but enough to make a slight game performance difference. Mostly unfair to Russian side




Nekronion -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/25/2020 12:50:33 PM)

This problem is present for both sides and also for non-HQ units. As Soviets routing units will often fly all over the map.



Karri -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/25/2020 12:58:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nekronion

This problem is present for both sides and also for non-HQ units. As Soviets routing units will often fly all over the map.


I've noticed that they tend to climb along the line. Instead of routing backwards, they go where-ever the frontline guides them.



xhoel -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/25/2020 1:52:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

I've noticed that they tend to climb along the line. Instead of routing backwards, they go where-ever the frontline guides them.


Yes this seems to be the case. A bug that needs to be fixed ASAP really.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 11:09:54 AM)

The problem is units in supply can rout through enemy controlled hexes (surround a unit on your turn and rout it - it's allowed to move through your units to safety). So those HQs didn't rout through sea, but Leningrad. Not very realistic, I know. But how to prevent that, and yet allow other units to rout through enemy units while supplied?

The other is new retreat code that scores hexes closer to supply source as better than those further away (rather than assuming West for Axis units etc). The problem is it doesn't make distinction between Finnish and Germans supply sources (so those units were happy to retreat towards closer Finnish source). I'll check what I can do about it.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 11:10:36 AM)

If you can give me a save with that situation I could easily test my fix.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 11:23:55 AM)

I believe this will solve all problems from this bug report:

quote:

3. Supplied units making a displacement move during the logistics phase will not be allowed to move through enemy units.
4. During retreat and displacement moves non-Finnish Axis units will ignore Finnish supply sources, and Finnish Axis units will ignore non-Finnish supply sources.



xhoel -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 1:59:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

The problem is units in supply can rout through enemy controlled hexes (surround a unit on your turn and rout it - it's allowed to move through your units to safety). So those HQs didn't rout through sea, but Leningrad. Not very realistic, I know. But how to prevent that, and yet allow other units to rout through enemy units while supplied?




The problem isn't that they retreated through enemy controlled hexes. This has been a feature of routing since forever and is an accepted thing. The problem is the hexes they chose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

If you can give me a save with that situation I could easily test my fix.



I will ask Bed John for the save and send it to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Supplied units making a displacement move during the logistics phase will not be allowed to move through enemy units.



So where will they move? It seems like this change will create even more problems.

Also any news on when the new patch will be out?



Nekronion -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 2:38:25 PM)

While the Finnish situation is a problem, the bigger problem is that routing units rout much farther than they have to. A Soviet unit routing from say Bryansk won't go to something close like Orel but often much further, like say a frontline near Kharkov.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 3:44:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel
The problem isn't that they retreated through enemy controlled hexes. This has been a feature of routing since forever and is an accepted thing. The problem is the hexes they chose.


Well, now it should be impossible for surrounded HQs to retreat out of pockets, so code must change. Any valid hex may be chosen, the problem is to score them properly, so that logically best is scored highest, and the problem is solved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel
So where will they move? It seems like this change will create even more problems.


We'll see when I get the save.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel
Also any news on when the new patch will be out?


Not yet, could be send for "production" at any moment, but it will mean any other bugs will remain unfixed for even longer time.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 3:47:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nekronion

While the Finnish situation is a problem, the bigger problem is that routing units rout much farther than they have to. A Soviet unit routing from say Bryansk won't go to something close like Orel but often much further, like say a frontline near Kharkov.


There is a minimum rout distance, in order not to let such units be "bumped" again and again by advancing units. Game is not clever enough to determine when the front is very fluid (warranting longer moves) and pretty static (shorter moves). I can reduce that minimum distance (8 hexes for combat units with less than 25 nominal MP, 12 hexes for other units), but which value will be not too small and not too large?



xhoel -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 4:09:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael


Well, now it should be impossible for surrounded HQs to retreat out of pockets, so code must change. Any valid hex may be chosen, the problem is to score them properly, so that logically best is scored highest, and the problem is solved.



But how will that work for units that are not surrounded then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

We'll see when I get the save.



Should I send you an email? I have the save ready.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Not yet, could be send for "production" at any moment, but it will mean any other bugs will remain unfixed for even longer time.


Understandable. However, if there are no more bugs in the next couple of days, maybe it would be worth it to be send for "production" as you put it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

There is a minimum rout distance, in order not to let such units be "bumped" again and again by advancing units. Game is not clever enough to determine when the front is very fluid (warranting longer moves) and pretty static (shorter moves). I can reduce that minimum distance (8 hexes for combat units with less than 25 nominal MP, 12 hexes for other units), but which value will be not too small and not too large?


This could have been prevented by the old rules though, wouldn't it? Don't units rout to a town anymore? Or to their parent HQ? I'm out of the loop with the new rules regarding routing.

No idea if those particular values would work though.





morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 4:49:49 PM)

Please send the email.

Old rules allowed rout via sea and for OOS HQs and airbases. This is no longer the case, so some special cases needs handling now that the old code is gone and they were revealed.

Units rout to hexes scored in few categories, closer to supply source being one of them, closer to parent HQ being another (but less important).



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 6:26:54 PM)

Displacement moves with patch:

Note: Panzer HQs retreated towards their Panzer Army HQs in the south.

I will perhaps indeed reduce displacement moves minimum distance from 8/12 to 6/9 hexes.

[image]local://upfiles/22250/21A7BAC3FAE5499EB22A60D6FD2C1662.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 7:04:04 PM)

After reducing retreat distance, and preventing units from routing via enemy hexes if they are not surrounded (have a link of friendly hexes towards supply source).

Retreats might be slightly different, apart from code changes, as I didn't move Soviet units in the same order.

[image]local://upfiles/22250/5F3A8F6FF78D4FF4B55A957CCC9EBFEC.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 7:07:29 PM)

As can be seen most of the locations chosen are pretty safe, as HQs ended up on combat units (SE of Lake Ilmen there was an ID that I have moved there). The only unsafe location is south of Soltsy - HQ is with 2 construction units.



xhoel -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/27/2020 8:51:25 PM)

The red ones, look like quite an improvement. Good to see that it worked.

Thanks for the help!



56ajax -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/28/2020 1:20:42 AM)

In my current game some NW front units rout into the Pripyat marshes and some Western Front rout down to Proskirov (sic) in the Ukraine; might have been bumped twice as it is only T2.



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/28/2020 6:30:07 AM)

Can this be the pull of the Baku supply source?



morvael -> RE: Units routing to weird locations. (2/28/2020 6:52:51 AM)

No, it can't be, it ends south of Stalingrad, and north of Stalino.

I guess other friendly units pull them there, even if they are from different armies/fronts.



BrianG -> new beta .05 (5/16/2020 1:29:55 PM)

The rout seem much better in .05.

so far nothing strange



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