Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (Full Version)

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HansBolter -> Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:53:03 PM)

A year and a half ago my brother and I began a search for a dark sky country property to escape to from the overcrowded Tampa Bay area when I retire in 4 years and to use for our monthly new moon star gazing outings.

We used the world wide Light Pollution Map available on the internet as a tool for the property search. Below is a captured image from that map locating the St. Petersburg Astronomy Club's dark sky site in Withlacoochee River park near Dade City, our buddy Matt Terry's 5 acre site near Lake Panasofkee and our 2.24 acre site on the eastern edge of the Gulf Hammock.



[image]local://upfiles/21458/ABE1CC2DEC8441D6A7170AE8B8BA879C.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:55:08 PM)

Today I was perusing the Light pollution Map and noticed a large node of light in North Dakota that appeared to defy logic.
The node of light is larger than Chicago. There are no large cities anywhere near.

[image]local://upfiles/21458/56B3668BF5DA412580722BEAC0B55826.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:55:54 PM)

A closer zoom reveals this area of light is centered in the bend of a large river.



[image]local://upfiles/21458/9175D659985C4090905FC65E17219647.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:56:53 PM)

A far zoom on Google Earth reveals nothing that could be the source of this light.

[image]local://upfiles/21458/EB6B07037D57400CB00ACEDAF56D21BF.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:57:42 PM)

A medium zoom of the area begins to reveal lots of small clearings:



[image]local://upfiles/21458/FC65C4D4A76D4F3B84B4A7199CA01DA2.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:58:34 PM)

A close zoom of some of the clearings reveals what appear to be rocket launch sites.


[image]local://upfiles/21458/5EED1EC5F13244E99E60E2D0B801246A.jpg[/image]



witpqs -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:58:52 PM)

Military base?



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 6:59:37 PM)

I'm presuming this area is where we have our ICBMs deployed and the entire region of the state is lit up like daylight all night long......



jwolf -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:02:06 PM)

ND has a very large energy production industry. Could that be the source?



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:04:39 PM)

Any forumites who hail from these parts that could clue us all in?

From my point of view night time security is the only reason anything gets lit up this brightly.



Canoerebel -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:08:00 PM)

I've been camping in that area in 2014. It was utterly black at night. My daughter went backpacking there last June. Same result.

I believe that's an anomaly or error on that map. It's not lit up like that at night in western North Dakota.



IdahoNYer -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:15:39 PM)

Hans - you can clearly see the shadow of an oil ground pump in your picture on the right. Fracking site....



inqistor -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:16:55 PM)

Military Bases tended to be cropped out in Google, so probably not silos.

It seems, it already goes like that for years



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:22:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've been camping in that area in 2014. It was utterly black at night. My daughter went backpacking there last June. Same result.

I believe that's an anomaly or error on that map. It's not lit up like that at night in western North Dakota.


This seems like the most reasonable explanation.



MakeeLearn -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:22:59 PM)

2013

A Mysterious Patch Of Light Shows Up In The North Dakota Dark

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a-mysterious-patch-of-light-shows-up-in-the-north-dakota-dark

[image]local://upfiles/55056/9F43CC64C1284F28AB9689E97DF0B3A1.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:25:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Military Bases tended to be cropped out in Google, so probably not silos.

It seems, it already goes like that for years



Not All. MacDill and CentCom in all its glory:



[image]local://upfiles/21458/62D04395AB844905BF0B3BF56FB0F4FB.jpg[/image]



MakeeLearn -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:25:41 PM)

2019
Night Lights in North Dakota

https://eros.usgs.gov/image-gallery/image-of-the-week/night-lights-north-dakota



RangerJoe -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:26:11 PM)

Oil shale fracking. The methane being vented is not always saved as it is too far from a pipeline and it may also be contaminated with a little oil. So the gas is burned. There may also be some regular oil pumping there as well.

Also, look at the Northeastern tip of Minnesota as well as the very north central part of the state. Mostly dark except where a few cities along the border an a strip south of the dark area. That should be a nice place to see the Northern Lights when they are showing and the sky is clear. Also, I don't think that they get hurricanes there nor even himmacanes there. I believe that there is quite a bit of water in the area so people won't get too thirsty.



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:27:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

2013

A Mysterious Patch Of Light Shows Up In The North Dakota Dark

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a-mysterious-patch-of-light-shows-up-in-the-north-dakota-dark




Great article. Thanks for the link.



Chickenboy -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:53:07 PM)

Hans, those are oil production facilities. Likely they're flaring gas instead of compressing it for pipeline shipment.



Chickenboy -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 7:55:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

2013

A Mysterious Patch Of Light Shows Up In The North Dakota Dark

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a-mysterious-patch-of-light-shows-up-in-the-north-dakota-dark




Great article. Thanks for the link.



Responded late, as usual.

The picture posted was interesting. You can see the same sort of diffuse light pattern in West Texas. Similar flaring of gas there too.



Scott_USN -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 8:07:36 PM)

I watched that NASA video in the story about Dark Earth, well Italians must be scared of the dark because it is almost like one big light!



Anachro -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/25/2020 8:48:47 PM)

Bakken Shale



geofflambert -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 1:23:23 AM)

It's hard to beat Montana for the night sky, even the day sky. The cirrus clouds are so close you think you can reach up and touch them. The blue is dark and you can see some stars in full daylight.



Chickenboy -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 1:40:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

It's hard to beat Montana for the night sky, even the day sky. The cirrus clouds are so close you think you can reach up and touch them. The blue is dark and you can see some stars in full daylight.


Hai! Chickenboy-san has it on good authority that the stars at night are big and bright...deep in the heart of Texas.

Be sure to put San Antonio on your bucket list for 2024-a full solar eclipse will be running right through my neck of the woods. Supposed to be a zone of total eclipse for 4 minutes and 28 seconds-longer than 2017 was in Kentucky.

https://nationaleclipse.com/maps.html



Insano -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 2:04:49 AM)

The silo looking things are oil storage tanks. They are all over the midwest from Texas to Canada.



Zorch -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 2:29:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert




Hai! Chickenboy-san has it on good authority that the stars at night are big and bright...deep in the heart of Texas.

Be sure to put San Antonio on your bucket list for 2024-a full solar eclipse will be running right through my neck of the woods. Supposed to be a zone of total eclipse for 4 minutes and 28 seconds-longer than 2017 was in Kentucky.

https://nationaleclipse.com/maps.html

I wonder what happened in prehistoric times - did entire tribes go blind during solar eclipses? [&:]



pontiouspilot -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 3:51:31 AM)

Oh come on guys....ND is covered in oil production sites....Bakken oil. I'm guessing that they are still getting away with flaring. We used to do that but largely quit years ago.

Notwithstanding that I cannot think of a better spot to to do star gazing at night. Just remember that it doesn't get dark until late in the summer.



RangerJoe -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 7:09:08 AM)

I personally think that the best place to look for heavenly bodies would be at a beach . . .



HansBolter -> RE: Really, really OT: Source of Light Pollution in ND? (2/26/2020 11:50:43 AM)

I should have thought about it a bit more before posting.

The ICBMs are in hardened underground silos not sitting on above ground launch derricks. [8|]

The first post picture illustrates why we chose the property we did.

The club dark sky site near Dade City is not really very dark, but is conveniently close to the Tampa Bay area.

Our friend Matt Terry's property is an order of magnitude darker than the club site and was where we had been going for our monthly new moon outings prior to acquiring our own property.

Our new site is two orders of magnitude darker than Matt's property. It is one mile east of the western edge of the Goethe State Forest which comprises the south east area of what is known as the Gulf Hammock. The hammock is the darkest area in all of Florida. It is much darker than the Everglades. The sky glow from Miami spreads two thirds of the way across the Everglades.

Our sky along the hammock is the darkest I have ever seen in Florida with the summer Milky Way a solid bar of light from tree line to tree line. We couldn't be happier with it.



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