RE: OT: Corona virus (Full Version)

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obvert -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 12:08:36 PM)

After reading about the effects on the residents of Newham, where so many are experiencing daily loss of family, friends and community member, I wanted to see how this compared to other areas. It will seem more difficult in cities, but might hit rural communities even harder in some areas in terms of effects to the whole community if per capita mortality rates are an indicator of the impact of suffering, as highlighted in the Guardian article on Newham.

These are from per capita mortality rates in deaths/100k.

Some data for comparison. I picked no more than two regional areas per state in the US and only included counties with more than 100/100k. This is not by any means a comprehensive picture, but something I was curious about, looking at local information. I was surprised by the severity so close to home as compared to areas much more in the spotlight.

The three worst areas in the UK are all in London:

Newham: 144.3 deaths per 100,000
Brent: 141.5
Hackney: 127.4

Italy:

Lombardy: 138.0
Val D'Osta: 109.0
Emilia-Romagna: 80.0

France:

Ille de France: 49.0
Grand Est: 52.0

Spain:

Madrid: 122.0
Castille La Mancha: 120.0
La Rioja: 104.0


The US:

NY:

NYC: 210.9
Nassau County: 155.6

NJ:

Essex County: 149.5
Union County: 124.8

GA:

Randolph County: 268 (but only 19 deaths)
Terrell County: 214.5 (but only 19 deaths)


IN:

Decatur County: 117.0

LA:

St John the Baptist: 163.0
Orleans Parish: 112.0

MI:

Wayne County: 101.3

MT:

Toole County: 121.0 (but only 6 deaths)

OK:

Greer County: 101.0 (but only 6 deaths)




Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 12:32:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

We now have full face shields, N-95 masks and gowns but not enough that you can throw everything away after one use. I had to make a hair covering out of a shoe covering. [:)]

Plenty of procedure masks and gloves and gel. Telehealth is surprisingly effective despite some technical snags. Still an absolutely striking fall off in asthma exacerbations. Markedly reduced minor trauma too (lacerations, concussions, extremity fractures). Going back to the main office on Monday from Fort Apache

Could the asthma problem decrease be related to a drop in pollution during the stay-at-home period?


I am pretty sure it is the reduction in OTHER viral respiratory infections



Nomad -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 1:02:41 PM)

Toole county Montana. Covid-19 cases started in an assisted living center there, brought in by someone who traveled to see a patient.

There seems to be no public record of who that was or where they came from.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 1:23:47 PM)

US mortality continues to exceed the Univ. of Washington projections each day. As of the 1st, actual mortality was about 4k higher than projected mortality (but well within the margin of error).

In Georgia, daily mortality is usually (but not always) less than projected. At the moment, the state is just a bit under overall projection, which dropped by 25% about three days ago. This is noteworthy because it was the first large state to begin easing countermeasures and may serve as a bellwether for problems or successes.

The editors at the Atlantic Monthly revised that loathsome "experiment in human sacrifice" headline a few days back. Even they realized they'd gone too far, though they didn't change it much.



witpqs -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 1:35:26 PM)

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 2:22:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.



Stage right...Lawyers! We are looking at a generational lawsuit epidemic.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/First-wave-of-virus-litigations-are-filed-15241175.php



Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 4:02:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.



Stage right...Lawyers! We are looking at a generational lawsuit epidemic.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/First-wave-of-virus-litigations-are-filed-15241175.php


What a nightmare. A 9-11 style protection from litigation is required. This would have to be an act of Congress. The inefficient destruction of wealth and distraction from recovery would be terrible without something like that. Of course, nothing wrong with suing CHINESE companies.[:)]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 4:13:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.


Wow, The Atlantic should be dumped in the Atlantic.

quote:

Perhaps, they posited, Americans could be moved to reconsider their “understanding” of the First and Fourth Amendments, as “the harms from digital speech” continue to grow, and “the social costs of a relatively open Internet multiply.”


What's to "understand"? The deliberate purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the unnecessary regulation of speech.



Professor Chaos -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:08:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.


Wow, The Atlantic should be dumped in the Atlantic.

quote:

Perhaps, they posited, Americans could be moved to reconsider their “understanding” of the First and Fourth Amendments, as “the harms from digital speech” continue to grow, and “the social costs of a relatively open Internet multiply.”


What's to "understand"? The deliberate purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the unnecessary regulation of speech.



Did you even read the original Atlantic article? It's by a conservative who's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and says nothing like the hit pieces claim it does.



RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:14:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.


Wow, The Atlantic should be dumped in the Atlantic.

quote:

Perhaps, they posited, Americans could be moved to reconsider their “understanding” of the First and Fourth Amendments, as “the harms from digital speech” continue to grow, and “the social costs of a relatively open Internet multiply.”


What's to "understand"? The deliberate purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the unnecessary regulation of speech.


Some people have fond memories of Feudalism and want it back. Of course, they want to be the Feudal Lords.



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:18:06 PM)

States ordered nursing homes to take COVID-19 residents. Thousands died. How it happened



https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-ordered-nursing-homes-covid-090009018.html



BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:22:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Indoor air is usually worse than outdoor air.

I our part of the continent, yes. But in California there is often smog from the industry and the number or vehicles on the road. Many pictures of the sun showing a weird red-orange colour during the day in LA. Not so much now that most people are staying close to home.



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:30:45 PM)

And then there is this:

NY withheld nursing home COVID-19 details for weeks. Thousands died. Here's how secrecy impacted lives

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/04/15/how-ny-nursing-home-covid-19-secrecy-impacted-thousands-lives/2991464001/

Normally, senior homes are informally audited by concerned family and friends that visit. Often very frequently. I visit my parents four plus times a week. I know the staff, the staff know me by name. It becomes an enlarged family, at least in my case. But care is improved: I can communicate potential problems and difficulties much better than my parents, often times I see them forming.

Remove those visits and an important part of senior care is gone.



BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 5:35:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



That is why I can't agree with your statement that your institutions always treat people fairly and are only criticized (unfairly) by left wing zealots.

As always, there will be a few zealots whose unreasonable accusations spoil the reasonable cases being made by most plaintiffs.



Where in the effing hell did I make any such statement? Quote it please?

Where the EFF do you get off putting words like that in my mouth?

Maybe we should start calling you Cathy Newman....so what you're saying is.....

I'm very sorry for you that you don't seem to grasp that you just placed yourself in that zealot category you referred to.

Your paraphrasing post attempting to put words in my mouth is REPREHENSIBLE.
This is exactly the kind of treatment conservatives have come to expect from leftists.

You have earned a Green Button and a complaint to a moderator for your slander.


Here is the exchange that I was responding to. Perhaps I used different wording, but the things I understood were that you felt the institutions were fair because racial bias had been eliminated and that there were leftist elements who were pushing the narrative of unfairness:


quote:



ORIGINAL: obvert
. If you don't recognise the discriminatory history of the US in regard to black and brown Americans, the civil rights movement and the existing legacy of those institutions then it'll be hard to discuss this on the same plane.



quote:



Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.


_____________________________


Hans



Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 7:16:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Chaos


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Inevitable Coronavirus Censorship Crisis is Here

I think this article is very important and calls out much of the BS being pushed now as 'responsible' and 'necessary'.


Wow, The Atlantic should be dumped in the Atlantic.

quote:

Perhaps, they posited, Americans could be moved to reconsider their “understanding” of the First and Fourth Amendments, as “the harms from digital speech” continue to grow, and “the social costs of a relatively open Internet multiply.”


What's to "understand"? The deliberate purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the unnecessary regulation of speech.



Did you even read the original Atlantic article? It's by a conservative who's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and says nothing like the hit pieces claim it does.



Professor Chaos is right. I just read the Atlantic piece. It is a defense of internet speech. The critic of the original Atlantic piece (in the link above) essentially has everything completely 180 degrees out of phase. The original Atlantic piece does describe the PRC as "adept" but he is talking about being adept at censorship.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/2/2020 9:55:45 PM)

You guys are typing too fast for me to keep up! So I am a few pages behind [plus all of the irrelevant stuff that some continue posting such as extensively repetitive quotes, number reports and personal disagreements]. However, diligently weeding thru it all we can still find interesting stuff, such as this comment:
quote:

They banned ALL TRAVEL from Hubei province to the rest of China, but allowed international flights to continue leaving Wuhan/Hubei. That basically targeted the whole world in a very passive aggressive way.


That is a compelling statement, and a quick check for verification on Wiki brings up this:

At 2 am on 23 January 2020, authorities issued a notice informing residents of Wuhan that from 10 am, all public transport, including buses, railways, flights, and ferry services would be suspended. The Wuhan Airport, the Wuhan railway station, and the Wuhan Metro were all closed. The residents of Wuhan were also not allowed to leave the city without permission from the authorities. The notice caused an exodus from Wuhan. An estimated 300,000 people were reported to have left Wuhan by train alone before the 10 am lockdown. By the afternoon of 23 January, the authorities began shutting down some of the major highways leaving Wuhan.

So I am curious if the poster of the above statement in quotes, or anyone else, can provide a better source concerning the allegation that China allowed international flights from Wuhan to continue, since Wiki doesn't seem to be very specific.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 12:59:25 AM)

My wife and I spent the day canoeing the Chattooga River in northwest Georgia. I'm just now back and checking the news.

It looks like mortalities are down significantly for the US today plus for hard hit states like NY, NJ and CN (and for my state, Georgia). Likewise, good reports from Belgium, Netherlands, Spain and France. UK down a bit and Italy up, but that's probably a one-off, at this point.

Overall, trends continue to look pretty encouraging.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 1:03:42 AM)

Worldometers is beginning to offer detail information for states. To this point, four states: Louisiana, Florida, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Probably they'll be adding more each day.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 5:30:12 AM)

I don't think the Chinese allowed any standard flights from Wuhan when they closed the place down. The airport the trains, the buses, private autos. Everything was shut down. What they did was campaign to NOT shut down international fights from elsewhere in China even though they knew perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands had already fled Wuhan and they knew it was highly transmissible and AND they already had information that patients were becoming sick from 2 to 11 1/2 days after exposure (mean of 5.5 days).

There were 2 US chartered flights out of Wuhan but those people were properly quarantined..(maybe...the first case in California was near the AFB they were quarantined at) I think there may have been a French charter too.

Wuhan had departing international flights for about 3 weeks after there was essentially incontrovertible evidence of human to human transmission. That was really the only chance the world had of stopping the virus.



jdsrae -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 9:18:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I don't think the Chinese allowed any standard flights from Wuhan when they closed the place down. The airport the trains, the buses, private autos. Everything was shut down. What they did was campaign to NOT shut down international fights from elsewhere in China even though they knew perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands had already fled Wuhan and they knew it was highly transmissible.


I concur:
23 Jan - China locked Wuhan down, but an estimated 300k people left between the 2am announcement and 10am when it came into effect.
5 Feb - Australia banned non-citizens from arriving from anywhere in China for 14 days. That decision attracted heavy criticism from the Chinese embassy, but the ban was extended and other regions and countries were added to the travel ban list.
11 Mar - WHO declared a pandemic

From the summary timeline of events in this article, from the Aus perspective:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/timeline-of-a-global-pandemic-c-754914.amp



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 10:14:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I don't think the Chinese allowed any standard flights from Wuhan when they closed the place down. The airport the trains, the buses, private autos. Everything was shut down. What they did was campaign to NOT shut down international fights from elsewhere in China even though they knew perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands had already fled Wuhan and they knew it was highly transmissible and AND they already had information that patients were becoming sick from 2 to 11 1/2 days after exposure (mean of 5.5 days).

There were 2 US chartered flights out of Wuhan but those people were properly quarantined..(maybe...the first case in California was near the AFB they were quarantined at) I think there may have been a French charter too.

Wuhan had departing international flights for about 3 weeks after there was essentially incontrovertible evidence of human to human transmission. That was really the only chance the world had of stopping the virus.



The Chinese may have decided that "if we are to suffer, then everyone else will too." Especially economically. "Level the playing field."



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 10:21:56 AM)

If the middle of a pandemic the US Navy sure likes to air it's dirty laundry.
Between the Health of Our Ships and UFOS what is next!



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 10:29:40 AM)

How coronavirus outbreaks on four other ships informed response on USS Kidd
May 2, 2020


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/2020-05-02/how-coronavirus-outbreaks-on-four-other-ships-informed-response-on-uss-kidd


"SAN DIEGO —

Novel coronavirus outbreaks on board three Navy warships have taught the service valuable lessons and enabled them to respond quickly in late March when a sailor started displaying symptoms of COVID-19 on board the guided-missile destroyer Kidd, a Navy vice admiral in charge of the Navy’s surface force said Friday.

The USS Kidd was conducting counter-drug operations in the eastern Pacific near South America when a sailor began exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, on April 22. Less than a week later, the ship was moored at Naval Base San Diego, with 243 of its roughly 330 sailors evacuated from the vessel."



HansBolter -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 10:30:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



That is why I can't agree with your statement that your institutions always treat people fairly and are only criticized (unfairly) by left wing zealots.

As always, there will be a few zealots whose unreasonable accusations spoil the reasonable cases being made by most plaintiffs.



Where in the effing hell did I make any such statement? Quote it please?

Where the EFF do you get off putting words like that in my mouth?

Maybe we should start calling you Cathy Newman....so what you're saying is.....

I'm very sorry for you that you don't seem to grasp that you just placed yourself in that zealot category you referred to.

Your paraphrasing post attempting to put words in my mouth is REPREHENSIBLE.
This is exactly the kind of treatment conservatives have come to expect from leftists.

You have earned a Green Button and a complaint to a moderator for your slander.


Here is the exchange that I was responding to. Perhaps I used different wording, but the things I understood were that you felt the institutions were fair because racial bias had been eliminated and that there were leftist elements who were pushing the narrative of unfairness:


quote:



ORIGINAL: obvert
. If you don't recognise the discriminatory history of the US in regard to black and brown Americans, the civil rights movement and the existing legacy of those institutions then it'll be hard to discuss this on the same plane.



quote:



Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.


_____________________________


Hans



Again I ask, where is the quote?

Where is the apology, or do you think it is OK to paraphrase and put word in people's mouth's they never uttered?

I can accept an interpretation that I may have implied something, I can accept your having inferred something, and stating clearly it is an inference, but I CANNOT accept a deliberate misquote substituting your interpretation for my words.

In case you didn't get my Cathy Newman reference, try Googling it. She has garnered world wide fame for what you are doing.



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 10:35:58 AM)

Scotland Launched an Invasion During the Black Death. Does Histroy Tell China to Attack Taiwan?May 2, 2020

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/scotland-launched-invasion-during-black-death-does-histroy-tell-china-attack-taiwan-150321


"Put simply, coronavirus may put Taiwan in China’s crosshairs as much as the bubonic plague put England in Scotland’s sights."

"When the Black Death ravaged Europe in the mid-fourteenth century, the soldiers of Scotland saw opportunity in crisis. First hitting England in 1348, the plague’s deadly spread across the country spurred the Scots to perceive an ideal moment to conquer their neighbors by staging an invasion of northern England in 1349. Might a power in today’s coronavirus-stricken world take advantage of temporary alterations to the global strategic environment for its geopolitical gain? "

" An alarming twenty-six U.S. Navy ships have reported coronavirus cases, most prominently the USS Theodore Roosevelt."



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 11:32:19 AM)

CNBC is running a headline about the USA having just experienced it's "Deadliest Day." The article then opens by describing how various states are easing countermeasures in the face of this news. The implications are that states are proceeding recklessly. But to get this story, CNBC fiddled with the data.

CNBC cherry-picked a 24-hour period spanning two days to get this highest total. Contrary to it's assertion, neither Thursday nor Friday were the deadliest days. The deadliest day was April 21, more than a week earlier, with 2,683 mortalities. Since then, deaths have been gradually, then a bit more, dropping.

CNB cherry-picked a 24-hour-period over two days to find the highest possible concentration of numbers. The problem with that approach is that the balance of those two days would then be hours with far less reported mortalities, so that if CNB ran the numbers for the 24 hours before or after the 24 cherrypicked, the mortality numbers would be drastically lower. But that story won't be run.

Another example of major media outlet running numbers without context - telling the truth without telling the whole truth, in effect telling a lie. Sensationalism, half-truths and untruths aren't badges of integrity.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/539D85C98DBA480685D61F216CAEEC66.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 11:46:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I don't think the Chinese allowed any standard flights from Wuhan when they closed the place down. The airport the trains, the buses, private autos. Everything was shut down. What they did was campaign to NOT shut down international fights from elsewhere in China even though they knew perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands had already fled Wuhan and they knew it was highly transmissible and AND they already had information that patients were becoming sick from 2 to 11 1/2 days after exposure (mean of 5.5 days).

There were 2 US chartered flights out of Wuhan but those people were properly quarantined..(maybe...the first case in California was near the AFB they were quarantined at) I think there may have been a French charter too.

Wuhan had departing international flights for about 3 weeks after there was essentially incontrovertible evidence of human to human transmission. That was really the only chance the world had of stopping the virus.


More Information on Chinese Flights:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/Whathappensif/how-china-locked-down-internally-for-covid-19-but-pushed-foreign-travel/





Canoerebel -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 11:55:06 AM)

Newsweek gives a daily mortality number that is one-half the CNBC number from just a day or two earlier but doesn't offer the context, "Hey, this number is half what we were seeing just a few days ago!"

[image]local://upfiles/8143/76426D8331974FB1B29E1705D859CFF0.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 11:55:52 AM)

More on China.

United Front groups in Canada helped Beijing stockpile coronavirus safety supplies

https://globalnews.ca/news/6858818/coronavirus-china-united-front-canada-protective-equipment-shortage/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter



Lowpe -> RE: OT: Corona virus (5/3/2020 11:59:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Newsweek gives a daily mortality number that is one-half the CNBC number from just a day or two earlier but doesn't offer the context, "Hey, this number is half what we were seeing just a few days ago!"

[image]local://upfiles/8143/76426D8331974FB1B29E1705D859CFF0.jpg[/image]



Truth be told, I question most of the numbers widely circulated. Who is Worldometers anyhow? How do they get their data? The CDC warns about state vs state reporting as the process each state uses is so varied and reported on different timelines.

CR I think you have done a good job of documenting some of it.






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