Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (Full Version)

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giantsquid -> Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (2/27/2020 10:31:36 PM)

I just played the excellent Broken Shield LIVE scenario, featuring some interesting new Israeli weapons. I noticed possible point of attention/small bugs, so I wanted to share them with you and the devs.

1. The Harop mini-UCAV is a loitering munition with full man-in-the-loop control (you can change target and flight path after launch), able to strike targets guided by multiple sensors. Has great range but it’s very slow, about 90 knots. I have read they are stealthy targets, thanks to small size and composite material, but in CMO they are discovered even by older SAM at about 30 nm, and easily shot down, making them not very useful. I was wondering if this is correct or some tweaking of the RCS is needed. Sensors and maneuvering worked fine.

2. I used Delilah small cruise missiles too. According to this and other article: https://www.iaf.org.il/5642-35312-en/IAF.aspx
it should be possible to plan waypoints, change target in flight and bearing only launch (like Tactical Tomohawk) but in my experience it’s not feasible. In CMO data sheets they are labeled as terrain-following, data-link weapons but they always remain at around 2000 ft (fixed minimal altitude?) and I’m not able to control the flight height or any other parameter before and after the launch.

By the way thanks for the outstanding support to this great simulation

Francesco



stilesw -> RE: Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (3/2/2020 4:55:09 PM)

quote:

1. The Harop mini-UCAV is a loitering munition with full man-in-the-loop control (you can change target and flight path after launch), able to strike targets guided by multiple sensors. Has great range but it’s very slow, about 90 knots. I have read they are stealthy targets, thanks to small size and composite material, but in CMO they are discovered even by older SAM at about 30 nm, and easily shot down, making them not very useful. I was wondering if this is correct or some tweaking of the RCS is needed. Sensors and maneuvering worked fine. According to the parameters in DB3K for the Harop entry these features are WAD with small RCS values which are based on the available information.

2. I used Delilah small cruise missiles too. According to this and other article: https://www.iaf.org.il/5642-35312-en/IAF.aspx it should be possible to plan waypoints, change target in flight and bearing only launch (like Tactical Tomohawk) You are correct on this point and the weapon will have the waypoint setting feature available in the next DB3K release.)but in my experience it’s not feasible. In CMO data sheets they are labeled as terrain-following, data-link weapons but they always remain at around 2000 ft (fixed minimal altitude?) and I’m not able to control the flight height or any other parameter before and after the launch. This is also WAD. The cruise altitude is set to 2,000 feet and the terrain following will keep it at that level over changing ground features.


-WS



giantsquid -> RE: Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (3/3/2020 1:12:07 PM)

Thank you for your kind answer and the amazing work done so far
What do you mean with "WAD"?

I didn't fine any info about minimal flight altitude of the Delilah, but it really looks like you can change it. So it should be something like "selectable 200-28.000 ft" with a 2000 ft default value in the latest version.

F



stilesw -> RE: Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (3/3/2020 1:45:47 PM)

quote:

What do you mean with "WAD"? That's a closely kept secret and cannot be revealed without clearance from the CIA and NSA.
Well, actually not so much, WAD = Working as Designed. First time I saw it a couple of years ago I also asked what it meant.

I didn't fine any info about minimal flight altitude of the Delilah, but it really looks like you can change it. So it should be something like "selectable 200-28.000 ft" with a 2000 ft default value in the latest version.

The Delilah can be launched from an altitude 200ft to 55,000ft (and with waypoints in the next release). After launch it heads towards its target, terrain following at 2000ft and there is no further control from the launcher much as a torpedo with its control wire cut.

-WS



giantsquid -> RE: Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (3/11/2020 11:25:49 AM)

Thanks for your reply.
According to the articles posted it should be possible not only to plan waypoints, but even change altitude and target in flight, and put the weapon in a loiter (circular flight) pattern.

Francesco




Gunner98 -> RE: Employing Harop UCAV and other modern Israeli weapons (3/11/2020 3:15:41 PM)

quote:

loitering munition


I don't have experience with this specific munition but LMs in general are (or at least were) designed for a low threat COIN environment where you want to keep it high enough to avoid low level SAMs, MANPADs & ground fire but low enough to protect it from high end radars. Haven't tried by you may want to play around with the Altitude a bit.



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