Questions about Ground Troops (Full Version)

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daddog -> Questions about Ground Troops (7/17/2003 1:07:25 AM)

I have several questions about ground attacks.

I am playing “Green Hell” as the IJN player. Have been working on Gili Gili for about a week. For the past 5 days I have bombarded it with 4-6 BB’s with some CA’s every turn. Currently the damage says:
Airfield Damage 100
Port Damage 43
Does this mean the airfield is shut down?

Their have also been 2 Gun hits and several supply hits. He has lost about 400 troops during that time from the bombardment attacks.

He has about 6000 troops there to my 4000. I have:
8th Naval Garrison
18th Naval Garrison
25th Naval Garrison
86th Naval Garrison
All of them have 81mm Motors. Right now all are set to defensive stance. They fought off one Allied attack, but lost about 250 men, his losses were about ½ that. Morale is in the 50’s and experience is about the same. Plenty of supplies. I would like them to survive till more troops arrive, but not sure the best way to do that. Suggestions?

Should I keep them defensive?
Should I set them to bombard with the 81mm?
:confused:
------------------------
CO daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels
Roster
Noses in the wind since 1997.
[img]http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg[/img]
[I]Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives.[/I]
John Adams, 1808



Snigbert -> (7/17/2003 8:00:33 AM)

The airfield is shut down with that high a level of damage, yes.
The port damage should concern you as well, as that has a large effect on supply.

So the situation seems to be, that he is controlling the base with 6000 troops while you have 4000 troop there trying to take it...and you want them to hold on for reinforcements?
Make sure you bring in at least 8000 more troops to achieve the 2:1 ratio you need to take the base. Softening them up with bombardment attacks isn't a bad idea, but it will use up resources more quickly than if you keep them on a defensive stance.

You should be able to hold out if he attacks you, since he has 1.5:1 odds. Any attacks he makes will hurt both of you. Just hang tough and stay on the defensive until you have the force you need, is my advice.



daddog -> (7/17/2003 8:59:15 AM)

Thanks snigbert! :) My troops have plenty of supplies, would it make them more vunerable to attack if I had them bombard, or should they stay totally defensive?



AmiralLaurent -> (7/17/2003 4:35:21 PM)

Bombardment with 81mm will do few damage and use supplies. As you have fewer troops than your opponent, you can't bear to suffer losses and to use supplies.

Stay in defensive stance, bombard one day every 5 to check your opponent force and bring reinforcement here as soon as possible.



dwesolick -> (7/17/2003 7:37:14 PM)

Hi Daddog
One good rule of thumb is, when invading a defended base first do a little recon to get an idea of what's there, then always go in with more troops than you think you'll need (easy for the Allies, perhaps not so always for the Japanese). This is especially true if you are playing FOW. You can just never be sure exactly what the enemy has there until you get there, so LOAD UP those transports!

What was it Napoleon said? "If you set out to take Vienna....TAKE VIENNA!" :)



Snigbert -> (7/18/2003 1:04:27 AM)

Daddog, let me explain how to properly conduct a land invasion, in the context of how I am planning to attack Noumea in the game I am playing against Dwesolick...

First, make sure you have plenty of recon flights over the base and you know how many regiments of infantry and armor they have to defend their base. I know from experience that Noumea has at most 3 regiments of the Americal Division and an Armor Bn. That adds up to about 280 assault points.

I also know he has coastal guns, but I can knock those out with my bombardment from ships with larger guns (CAs and BBs will outrange the coastal guns).

Next I make sure I have double the assault force that he has available to defend. Since my regiments have assault value of 144, I need 4 full regiments to take the base. In order to unload quickly, I put them in 4 tfs each consisting of 7 1000 load APs. Another TF will come in behind them carrying supplies.

Covering these 4 Transport tfs will be my main carrier force, which will consist of 5-6 CVs and 2-3 CVLs, no more than 3 CVs in a TF. Their mission is to knock out the air power and protect from American CVs. Fortunately I have located his CVs in Townsville so they wont be able to reach the scene in time.

The last key ingredient will be the BB/CA tf bombarding the heck out of Noumea for a couple of turns before the transports hit the beach to soften up the defenses.

Once everything is in place, I just hit the beaches with the troops and watch as the Americal division is helplessly overrun. Once I have secured the base and the Americans aren't receiving anymore ships, I just go around the map with my CVs and destroy his remaining ships in detail.


In the situation you are in, bombardment attacks will not kill many Americans but will cause minor disruption, which would be the only advantage of bombarding them.



Mr.Frag -> (7/18/2003 2:01:07 AM)

Unless I am reading the numbers backwards, sit back, kick off the sandals and have some beers...

6000 attackers vs 4000 defenders is an automatic failed invasion pretty much for sure. It sounded like you were the defender here.

Now, your Nvl Gsn boys are not really good troops, but they should be able to hold out just fine.

Watch very closely when you see the land combat playing out. You will see the odds displayed as combat is being resolved. These numbers tell you flat out if you are going to win or loose.

If you are seeing adjusted odds of 1:1 or 0:1, the defender has won the fight. If you are seeing it 2:1, it could go either way (depends on morale and supplies). If you are seeing 3:1, pack your bags as it can not fail.



dwesolick -> (7/18/2003 4:33:58 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]Daddog, let me explain how to properly conduct a land invasion, in the context of how I am planning to attack Noumea in the game I am playing against Dwesolick...

First, make sure you have plenty of recon flights over the base and you know how many regiments of infantry and armor they have to defend their base. I know from experience that Noumea has at most 3 regiments of the Americal Division and an Armor Bn. That adds up to about 280 assault points.

I also know he has coastal guns, but I can knock those out with my bombardment from ships with larger guns (CAs and BBs will outrange the coastal guns).

Next I make sure I have double the assault force that he has available to defend. Since my regiments have assault value of 144, I need 4 full regiments to take the base. In order to unload quickly, I put them in 4 tfs each consisting of 7 1000 load APs. Another TF will come in behind them carrying supplies.

Covering these 4 Transport tfs will be my main carrier force, which will consist of 5-6 CVs and 2-3 CVLs, no more than 3 CVs in a TF. Their mission is to knock out the air power and protect from American CVs. Fortunately I have located his CVs in Townsville so they wont be able to reach the scene in time.

The last key ingredient will be the BB/CA tf bombarding the heck out of Noumea for a couple of turns before the transports hit the beach to soften up the defenses.

Once everything is in place, I just hit the beaches with the troops and watch as the Americal division is helplessly overrun. Once I have secured the base and the Americans aren't receiving anymore ships, I just go around the map with my CVs and destroy his remaining ships in detail.


In the situation you are in, bombardment attacks will not kill many Americans but will cause minor disruption, which would be the only advantage of bombarding them. [/B][/QUOTE]

"You're mighty cocky for a starvin' pilgrim...can you skin Griz?" (Jeremiah Johnson) ;)



Snigbert -> (7/18/2003 4:49:44 AM)

Lol! Just seeing if you were paying attention :)



daddog -> (7/18/2003 5:37:03 AM)

quote:

6000 attackers vs 4000 defenders is an automatic failed invasion pretty much for sure. It sounded like you were the defender here.
Sorry Mrfrag, I was not clear enough. I attacked with 4000 and he had about 6000. More IJN troops are on the way. It has been 3 days since they (my IJN troops) landed at Gili Gili and they are holding on. Next turn another 1000 will land.

I see now I will need quite a bit more to take it.

Thanks for all the advice gents! :)



Mr.Frag -> (7/18/2003 6:10:16 AM)

You need to be very careful looking at the raw numbers of troops instead of looking at the assault values as they can be quite misleading.

A Base ENG gets a 1/10 of a point per squad yet contains a few thousand troops.

A Aussie Brigade (4000 odd men) is in the 100 range.

A Yank RCT is about the same number of grunts, but only has 80 odd ...

raw numbers don't matter much, but generally, if you see that close a range in the INF catagory, it will go to then defender.

If on the other hand it's 4000 INF's against 6000 ENG, the battle will be over extremely quickly.

INF units come in 4 basic sizes (Allied, USA, Japan, and little leftovers that are useful for empty bases).

Learn to spot these 3 key units based on respective sizes and you are well on your way to being able to know exactly what is required to kick them out.

Consider it this way: You need TWO to ONE INF units (give or take round off). If you are dealing with the little INF's, consider them as 4-5 = 1 real regiment.

The other units will fall into the round off error catagory, not really amounting to much. The 1/10th point was added purely to stop you putting 1 guy on a sub and taking a base :D



Snigbert -> (7/18/2003 6:44:43 AM)

[B]A Aussie Brigade (4000 odd men) is in the 100 range.[/B]



Actually, I think it breaks down more like this:

Elite Allies Regiment (6th Aus, 7th Aus, 1st Mar, 2nd Mar): 100 Assault

Line Allies Regiment (Americal, 41st Aus, 32nd Aus): 80 assault

Japanese Regiment: 144 assault

Naval Garrisons: 20s or so..some range up to 97 assault. What do you folks use these heavier naval garrisons for?

SNLF: Varies, but unique in that they are usually self-supporting

Allied Armor BN: Around 50 Assault

[B]Learn to spot these 3 key units based on respective sizes and you are well on your way to being able to know exactly what is required to kick them out.[/B]

I agree, the key to winning is knowing what your enemy has and then doubling or tripling what they have available.



daddog -> (7/18/2003 7:39:05 AM)

quote:

First, make sure you have plenty of recon flights over the base and you know how many regiments of infantry and armor they have to defend their base.
Where do you get the information from the "recon" flights? I have never used this, but I see I need to.



Heeward -> Recon flights (7/18/2003 8:14:46 AM)

After the recon flight is flown, during your turn move the mouse over the base and read the "report". More flights / airdraft should provide better information.



Veer -> (7/18/2003 9:51:59 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]
Next I make sure I have double the assault force that he has available to defend. Since my regiments have assault value of 144, I need 4 full regiments to take the base. In order to unload quickly, I put them in 4 tfs each consisting of 7 1000 load APs. Another TF will come in behind them carrying supplies.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Touche .. but you forgot the engineers. Always take engineers!



daddog -> (7/18/2003 10:24:38 AM)

[QUOTE]Touche .. but you forgot the engineers. Always take engineers![/QUOTE] Why?



dwesolick -> (7/18/2003 7:28:49 PM)

Hi daddog,

Engineers (COMBAT engineers) help to reduce the fortification level of the base you are attacking. Against the AI, you can often get by without them because (at least in my experience---always as Allies) only the major bases (like Rabaul) are heavily fortified. But against a PBEM opponent....TAKE THE ENGINEERS! And take Vienna! ;)

By the way, once you get more comfortable with the game, give PBEM a try. It is light years better (just found this out recently myself).



daddog -> (7/18/2003 9:18:16 PM)

Thanks dwesolick. :) PBEM is all I do. I played two games with the AI to get a feel for the game and since then only PBEM. Have yet to win one, but sure do enjoy it. Nice break from Aces High a flight sim I have been into for years.



Wanker -> (7/19/2003 12:20:47 AM)

Daddog, in my own, completely unbiased opinion....I think you're endeavor to capture Gili-Gili is hopeless, and recommend you give up now.


:D



Snigbert -> (7/19/2003 12:31:10 AM)

[B]By the way, once you get more comfortable with the game, give PBEM a try. It is light years better (just found this out recently myself).[/B]

His opponent might be worse than the AI, which is why he is having so much fun kicking PBEM ***.



daddog -> (7/19/2003 3:16:53 AM)

LOL wanker. Go away, you should not be reading my questions.



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