RE: T36 (Full Version)

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Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: T36 (5/1/2020 1:47:23 AM)

quote:

Was there a damage level and if so what was it? What version was that played on?


99%. That's probably the reason. But does it make sense?



Telemecus -> RE: T36 (5/1/2020 1:54:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

quote:

Was there a damage level and if so what was it? What version was that played on?


99%. That's probably the reason. But does it make sense?


I know the rule is if damage is over 50% it cannot produce at all.

For an aircraft factory or AFV factory that does make sense. Even if you have 50% of the machines working you will not have a complete set of ones you need for every step in the assembly.

I have not thought about it until now, but I guess for manpower it makes little sense as there is no assembly line with division of labour. You just have a pool of people and what happens to some should make no difference to others?



eskuche -> RE: T36 (5/1/2020 2:25:32 AM)

Well the analogy actually breaks down way before that. Are factory points multiple individual factories (probably not), and if not, and each acts as a conglomerate, what the build rate expansion actually mean? Is a size 36 factory 36 times larger than a size 1 factory (probably not), or more likely 2-5 times larger and 5-10 times more efficient? What does 25% damage actually mean for them? For manpower, then, one can probably rationalize it as having both conscription infrastructure and enough social stability and order to be able to requisition men of appropriate age for fighting. But in the end, it's easier just to accept the system as is, since it works relatively well [&:]



tyronec -> T37 (5/1/2020 1:45:40 PM)

Last turn of full Blizzard !

Pocket holds in the South, thanks to a very close win. So get to kill 3 Divisions and a Cav. Corps.

Otherwise not a great move for me, tried to make another pocket and failed and had a couple of attacks elsewhere lose.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/E1B41D8E66EB44529A022F22BF677127.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T37 (5/1/2020 1:50:53 PM)

State of the Wehr. at the end of my turn.

Morale of Panzers and Mot. are good, despite being heavily used throughout the Blizzard, however it has cost me a lot of tanks. Some of the Panzer Divisions are going to be more akin to Mot. for '42.

Infantry mostly OK too, worst ones are listed but most are over 70 and the median is around 72.

No point in waiting for the Panzers to fill up or for the better weather, will just continue attacking all out try to keep the Soviets worn down.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/5AADFFFEDFAC4F21AAE22DB0AF23D769.jpg[/image]



Crackaces -> RE: T37 (5/1/2020 2:27:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

State of the Wehr. at the end of my turn.

Morale of Panzers and Mot. are good, despite being heavily used throughout the Blizzard, however it has cost me a lot of tanks. Some of the Panzer Divisions are going to be more akin to Mot. for '42.

.............


That is my observation tyronec .. a trade of tanks for space and time .. this is an experience with both mild and harsh winter rules. The AFV kill results in combat are similar to any other season but damaged AFV's have multiple phases to be destroyed to include retreat and the logistics phase.



Telemecus -> RE: T37 (5/1/2020 3:49:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
No point in waiting for the Panzers to fill up or for the better weather, will just continue attacking all out try to keep the Soviets worn down.


I would put 10 panzer and the motorised units like 900 Lehr to a max of 75% of less ToE now - no point filling up a unit about to leave.



Crackaces -> RE: T37 (5/1/2020 4:10:33 PM)

One other observation .. 4.2M Soviets at the end of the winter. This has deep ramifications. The Soviet's will have to be smart about rebuilding units over the mud and managing their TO&E's ...



tyronec -> T38 (5/2/2020 2:52:03 PM)

Leningrad falls. One hex had surrendered and the other fell to the first assault. Not quite sure why, I think they must have shattered rather than the fort level having been beaten down.

Fairly quiet move, Soviets are pulling back a couple of hexes in the Central area. We make a small pocket of 4 units.

Am thinking to attack in two areas during March, one towards Voronezh and the other north of Rostov. Just to get the railheads advanced before the mud. Looking at the position now I would maybe have been better to go all out towards Rostov before the river thawed but I have probably missed my chance to do that, would have needed to have loaded up on Infantry around Stalino a couple of turns back.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/8ABAFF1CACF640549AFB447F806DFC0C.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: T38 (5/2/2020 6:23:09 PM)

Congrats on the fall of Leningrad! Any thoughts on if you would do the same in the future or would have used a few infantry corps after it was isolated to siege it down much earlier?



tyronec -> RE: T38 (5/2/2020 7:57:11 PM)

quote:

Congrats on the fall of Leningrad! Any thoughts on if you would do the same in the future or would have used a few infantry corps after it was isolated to siege it down much earlier?

This did not work out as expected, I thought they would surrender earlier - maybe after 15 turns or so. It cost me because the Finns couldn't attack and so their morale dropped faster than was good for them.

If I were playing this game again would have waited for a few turns for the Soviet morale to drop and then got stuck in with a couple of good Corps stuffed with heavy artillery and what pioneers were available. So probably would have taken it after the mud during the Snow turns.
A couple of security units might also be handy because you could use with their Army HQs to get more SUs in.

Think I played well enough up to first mud turns, am experienced with that period, but since then have been kind of feeling my way and missing some of the finer points of the game. Brian has a good feel for the balance of power all the time, it is difficult to take him by surprise.



chaos45 -> RE: T38 (5/2/2020 10:00:51 PM)

Balance of power is all Germany now until the end of 1942. His only shot was to mess u up in blizzard...and that didn't happen and he even lost more units when he should have been winning...because his lines are to weak. Brian has to try and survive the spring/summer/fall of 1942 with a very weak Soviet army now. You should be able to chomp and digest the soviets all summer and grab all the main cities.

You have him basically 1:1 going into 1942, kill units take cities and his army wont grow much esp with Leningrad and Moscow just adding troops to your units with Hiwis now.



tyronec -> T39 (5/3/2020 10:35:49 AM)

Soviets are holding their lines from Moscow Northwards and around Rostov, otherwise retreating 2-3 hexes.

Small pocket held from last turn, so kill 4 units.
Otherwise mostly just advancing into contact. Have pushed some Panzer divisions forwards without attacking and fueling up the Mot. divisions ready for a push next turn. Two turns of Snow left before the mud.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/669C69C70F6F48DBA81854D4CD7E87D5.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T39 (5/3/2020 4:43:43 PM)

I see a large pocket coming if this is a thorough recon picture!



redrum68 -> RE: T39 (5/3/2020 4:49:34 PM)

How's fuel looking next turn for these panzers/mots?
[image]local://upfiles/58324/6C5AFD03076F46868727B18EF5E4AEE6.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 4:52:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Balance of power is all Germany now until the end of 1942.



True on this for sure. When you have someone on the ropes you don't stop hitting until the referee pulls you off your opponent or they are dead. From what I see Tyronec can capture Baku if he starts right away. Just make sure to get Stalingrad under wraps first. Tyronec is an excellent player and I think he will do just that.




tyronec -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 5:55:53 PM)

quote:

How's fuel looking next turn for these panzers/mots?

The Panzers have around 30-50% I think.
All the Mot. are close to 100%.

Expect the Soviets will retreat a good bit to avoid any pockets, the objective is to clear as much rail line as possible before MUD so that the FBDs can make good progress and set things up for the Spring.

The RECON was moderate, there is more strength and more fortifications around Rostov than in the center plus a line of units building fortifications behind the river. Guess the standard Axis play is to storm the river above Rostov and then head SE, so will see how it goes with a wider hook.



Telemecus -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 6:01:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Guess the standard Axis play is to storm the river above Rostov and then head SE, so will see how it goes with a wider hook.


Going into the Caucasus is not necessarily a good thing. Beyond the west Caucasus there is very little manpower outside of Baku. So if you get to 10 miles of Baku only you may as well not have bothered. We know fuel and oil does not matter. So 1942 is all about manpower. Baku is about 15 turns of rail repair away, the main Volga is ten turns of rail repair away and with far more manpower. See the 1942 planning map in 2.4 of the Library of WitE resources here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4317692 - the numbers in green are the manpower numbers for the clusters in Green. The Caucasus is a dead zone. And the rail repair is only a single line without the possibility of loops so you are always in danger of partisan strikes there.



tyronec -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 7:51:15 PM)

That is a nice map, it kind of confirms roughly what I was thinking of but helps to clarify what is no so worthwhile going for.

There is a benefit in heading South in that supplies are a little better, also Azov and the Black Sea give you a border to pocket against. Will aim for roughly this area which covers most of the low lying fruit. If things go well can try and grab a bit of terrain to the NE of Moscow.

However it all depends on what the Soviets do, exploiting gaps comes first.

If you manage to cut through to Kirov does that block all rail supply to the North of the map or is there another supply source anywhere ?

[image]local://upfiles/52296/87802F742FCC45739B3DE2A1181CFF50.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 7:55:03 PM)

I think what you have put there is ideal in terms of manpower capture - although you are right it does depend on the soviet side. It clearly shows after the west Caucasus there is a dead zone and so unless you get Baku you may as well not bother.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
There is a benefit in heading South in that supplies are a little better


I thought the southern bonus to the rail supply modifier had been patched out quite a while ago?



Telemecus -> RE: T38 (5/3/2020 8:19:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
If you manage to cut through to Kirov does that block all rail supply to the North of the map or is there another supply source anywhere ?


Not quite - all rail hexes on the edge of the map are permanent supply sources in the latest version. This includes 148,0 north of Syktvar and 114,0 and there is a rail line further to the north of Kirov that would connect them to the northern fronts of the USSR without going through Kirov.



tyronec -> RE: T38 (5/4/2020 8:06:57 AM)

quote:

I thought the southern bonus to the rail supply modifier had been patched out quite a while ago?

I think the formula being used is the one from 1.12.00 Appendix A, the one I posted in the main Forum area. Checking the map it makes quite a difference North to South.



chaos45 -> RE: T38 (5/4/2020 10:48:14 AM)

Map looks reasonable to me....only note I would make is don't stand on the open plains if you can help it. The soviets should defend the final terrain lines towards the extent of your advance....if you manage to push those you should use those same lines to anchor your defense.



tyronec -> T40 (5/4/2020 2:30:42 PM)

MUD in the South, BLIZZARD due next turn in the North - which is the last SNOW turn.

Static front as usual North of Moscow, a few battles each way.

In the Center the Soviets retreat 3 hexes and we follow up.

Do get a pocket in the South, there were no serious fortifications to cut through and get further than expected. My plan to not attack with Panzers went out the window, some of them were needed.

Had a Soviet army surrender from normal combat, assume that is a bug.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/57DB96B7D80D4014812A07DA1AC7A3C5.jpg[/image]



eskuche -> RE: T40 (5/4/2020 2:48:29 PM)

Ouch. Had this happen with an airbase as well. If Brian doesn’t post it might be helpful to do so with a save on tech support for morvael.



tyronec -> T41 (5/7/2020 12:21:18 PM)

Start of turn.

Blizzard in the North, Snow elsewhere.

Soviets have pocketed a few units up North, no attacks for their Southern hook so the only explanation I can think is I must have forgotten to move some units after an attack last turn.
Think am going to lose something here, if I pull back the furthest away unit it will likely get herded back again, maybe it is best to leave it and at least it has good terrain and a fort to survive a bit longer. Blizzard this turn followed by several Mud is not good.
The one positive is it is tying in a lot of Soviets to try and get a surrender. I thought about pulling back a little up here last turn but decided against it because more Soviets up here means they are away from the critical areas in the Center and South.

Around Rostov things are looking better for Axis. Pocket from last turn held (no Soviet attack against it), 13 units including a Cav. Corps. The way looks open to advance past Rostov and avoid assaulting across the river against the heavy fortifications.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/25F5BF82E1E54CEEB50F7C970D80C976.jpg[/image]



chaos45 -> RE: T41 (5/7/2020 3:07:53 PM)

The soviet breakthrough is pathetically weak you should be able to break both hinges...the cav in your rear will be annoying but if they are out of supply in mud allows you to shift forces while keeping your men from being isolated. The key thing is not let Divisions surrender being beaten up and suffering losses keeps them in the field and able to rebuild much faster.

Cant see the outside of the pocket in the north but even a couple extra regiments should allow you to contain the soviets and save your divisions. Just something to contain those cav corps movements. Also your counterattacks should isolate those cav corps. An allow you to rebuild a line with just the cav in your rear.



tyronec -> RE: T41 (5/7/2020 7:21:31 PM)

quote:

The soviet breakthrough is pathetically weak you should be able to break both hinges...the cav in your rear will be annoying but if they are out of supply in mud allows you to shift forces while keeping your men from being isolated. The key thing is not let Divisions surrender being beaten up and suffering losses keeps them in the field and able to rebuild much faster.

Cant see the outside of the pocket in the north but even a couple extra regiments should allow you to contain the soviets and save your divisions. Just something to contain those cav corps movements. Also your counterattacks should isolate those cav corps. An allow you to rebuild a line with just the cav in your rear.

I was too worried about the weather to try and hold the line, with Blizzard this turn Soviets might just remake the pocket and hold it during the mud turns. Have left one unit in the heavy woods and pulled the rest back, just routed the Cav Corps away. Even losing just that division would be OK if it ties up a lot of Soviets during the mud turns.

Big break out in the South, is looking like the Soviets may abandon a lot of the South of the map and concentrate on holding the Center, but we shall see.
Kill 101k this turn, some heavy damage against weak screening units plus the pocket eliminated.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/726ED7D10B704E95A8EC2F335E61CBB2.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T43 (5/13/2020 1:13:03 PM)

Early April so still a couple of turns of full mud.
We are upgrading to latest patch.

In the North my abandoned division is sitting things out and hoping for a rescue.

Around Rostov continue to push forwards a little, there are quite a few infantry brigades in the Soviet front line that are easy to rout. Have pocketed a division this turn.

My desktop died on me last week and had to get a new power supply, which thankfully was able to install and get working on the 4th attempt. Tried to do a turn using my old laptop which was a painful experience, I used to use it for WITE a couple of years back but for some reason it seems even slower than before.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/6297113D5CC14A3FB07A1173E4822B63.jpg[/image]



chaos45 -> RE: T43 (5/14/2020 9:40:52 AM)

The Russians need to use the mud to escape in the south if possible. You are already over the river they have no chance to defend the far the south now. He should retreat the mountains and Stalingrad basically....an I really don't see how he can hold Stalingrad due to how advanced you already are before summer.



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