RE: Creating the Map part 14 - Pennsylvania (Full Version)

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FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 14 - Pennsylvania (4/20/2020 7:36:10 PM)

@eightroomofelixir - Many thanks for your feedback. Basically all points seems reasonable, and indeed you've pointed out some things I had basically forgotten/overlooked and am kicking myself over. Probably the only point I'm not going to fix right now is the bridge over the Delaware because if it was built in 1926 in real life then, if Philadelphia was de facto capital in TL-191, it's more likely to have been bridged sooner.

It's great to have feedback from someone who knows the area on the ground - I have only ever flown over it on a business trip to Denver and New York back in 2012.

Taking your points in turn:

1) I've added many more mountain and hill hexes. the only parts I'm going to keep flat are the long valleys, to encourage driving through the mountains along them.

2) I've added a port in attached to West Philly.

3) As I said, if the Delaware was bridged in 1926 in real life then it's not bad to have it bridged in 1914 in a scenario where Philadelphia was even more important.

4) West Philly has been added, as has the Schuylkill River, adding in an additional line of defence east of the Susquehanna.

5) I originally hadn't put Bethlehem in because Allentown was already included, but there is no harm in adding it so I've done that. I think I can designate it as an industrial centre to give it some extra value. What I'm looking at in terms of MPP is 300-400 per turn for the CSA, 100-150 for the UK/Canada/minor Entente, ~100 for Mexico, and 700-900 for the USA.

6) Really kicking myself for forgetting to put the Pittsburgh mines in! I've put three mines in which should be sufficient.

Additionally:

7) Really surprised at myself for not including Punxsutawney in the first draft. I'm wondering if I could do some kind of weather event based on what Phil predicts?

8) And if I'm including Punxsutawney then I'll have an extra rough road over the Alleghenies via Franklin and State College (a town I'd originally thought wasn't a town).

9) Realised I'd forgotten to put the Allegheny River in properly, so I did that as well.

Please feel free to nit-pick anything you see in the below screen-shot.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/214AD3B4F11B4D65BDE5F198A5F23BD1.jpg[/image]



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 14 - Pennsylvania (4/21/2020 1:43:42 AM)

@FOARP - Really, really appreciate the time and effort to put in for the feedback. I can image It's a very long and detailed process to do all these changes while having a whole picture. And the results are definitely feasible; I agree with the bridge over the Delaware, and love the touch to put the Punxsutawney on the map. I really expect pushing towards/defending Philadelphia in the future.

So, some new feedback, if you don't mind to have a look/change:

1) About the waterways - maybe the Delaware Bay can be bigger, and the South Jersey can be smaller (narrower).

On the one hand, since Philadelphia was a major shipbuilding center (three Iowa-class BBs were built in there later), and the in-game naval units occupies an entire hex, the current Delaware Bay maybe too small to house a fleet (currently it looks like a fjord.)

Also, with Newport News and Norfolk effectively control the Virginia Capes, I image the in-game Chesapeake Bay will be dominated by the Confederate Fleet, therefore Delaware Bay will become more important for the Union Player as a major naval harbor in the East Coast besides NYC and Boston.

I don't know if the Delaware Bay still looks right if, say, expanding one hex eastward from southeast Wilmington, and moving Vineland-Altantic City one hex northeast.
(Maybe we can also fit the Philly port into the hex south of Philly by this way, as IRL the Philadelphia Naval Yards are in the directly south of Central City Philadelphia.)

On the other hand, South Jersey is largely "barren" till this day. Most of it belongs to the Pinelands, covered by acidic soils and pine forests, to the point which local people reported that they encountered "devils" in the woods till 1930s. It would be unfavorable to conduct large scale military movements here, and I think it is practical to shrink this region to give some space to Philadelphia.


2) About Pittsburgh - you have mentioned you put the Allegheny River properly, so I looked at Pittsburgh more closely, and realized that we might all have overlooked a problem there.

Pittsburgh is at the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers. And the downtown, or the oldtown part of Pittsburgh, much like Philadelphia, was actually on a "peninsula" bounded by Allegheny and Monongahela, known as "Golden Triangle" colloquially. This would presumably puts the Pittsburgh at a hex north of Monongahela River and south of Allegheny River (which also added a line of defense of the city from a southern invasion). Currently on the map, Pittsburgh is at the west of Monongahela River and south of Ohio River.

This would also change some of rail placement. Wheeling-Pittsburgh crosses the Monongahela south of the city, Pittsburgh-New Castle crosses the Allegheny north of the city, and Altoona-Pittsburgh is at the south of the Allegheny. For rails into Ohio, Pittsburgh-Cleveland is at the north of the Ohio River; the Pittsburgh-Columbus-Cincinnati stays the same, south of the Ohio river.


Anyway, that will be it. Looking forward to the NYC area!



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 14 - Pennsylvania (4/21/2020 8:41:46 PM)

@eightroomofelixir - thanks again for the feedback. It's great having another set of eyes looking for stuff I've overlooked or gotten wrong.

1) I think NYC and Boston should be sufficient, with other bases in New England, to cover this, but if it isn't I'm happy to look at it again. I'm somewhat loath to reopen the coastline issue as it took so long to get more-or-less right.

2) Now I'm really performing a face-palm right here. Yeah, I have no idea how I got that one wrong. This website even has a bunch of great period maps I could have looked at.

But it's easily put right - here's what the "city of bridges" looks like now:

[image]local://upfiles/43674/2E0285D8AA034F9581C12DF757B7DE8B.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/23/2020 4:38:13 PM)

Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once...

Hello again. This time we're focusing on the great state of New York, home to New York city which was the second largest city in the world in 1914 and one of only two cities in the world with a population greater than four million people. As such NYC sprawls over multiple city hexes and is home to a major port and naval base.

New York state is also home to some other large cities (Buffalo and Rochester most prominently) and a major mining complex (the Benson mines) not far from the Canadian border. Speaking of the Canadian border, whilst Ontario is not yet filled out, there are some pretty fearsome fortifications to overcome if the US army is to ever break into Ontario already put in.

The next episode will be New England, though of course I'll be revising any problems that anyone spots in the mean time.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/D8E8FA791745459D813FADF7639D138E.jpg[/image]



Taxman66 -> RE: Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/23/2020 7:45:22 PM)

Did you skip Maryland?



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/23/2020 8:43:36 PM)

The mountainous New York state as well as separation of NYC (Manhattan) and Brooklyn are both nice touches.

As usual, there are several possible suggestions:



For NYC region:

1) Newark is actually a bit southern than Manhattan, around the same latitude as Brooklyn.
- Maybe move Newark one hex south, and change the original hex to a swamp, to represent the New Jersey Meadowlands (a huge, heavily polluted swamp north of IRL Newark).

2) Judging from the coastline, the 5-supply small city south of NYC is Staten Island+Upper New York Bay. IRL the major ports activities of NYC all happened in the New York Harbor, including Upper Bay and nearby Newark Bay, between Staten Island, Newark and Manhattan. On the other hand, the west end of the Long Island Sound doesn't have large port installations IRL.
- Maybe change this hex to a major 10/12 supply level port, to represent the New York Harbor.

3) One of the biggest USA naval shipyard, the Brooklyn Navy Yard, as the name suggest, is at Brooklyn.
- Maybe add another major port attached to Brooklyn besides the New York Harbor one.

4) Separating NYC and Brooklyn is a nice touch. However I am not sure about having a land&sea hex between NYC and Brooklyn; this looks like Brooklyn is situated deeply inside the Long Island. I understand that, at the current map design, you need a sea hex to access the port in the Long Island Sound, as the Long Island Sound is being soft-blocked by the port of New Haven.
- Then If having two major ports at the south of NYC and Brooklyn (as the suggestions above), you can move Brooklyn one hex west, next to NYC.

5) Related to 4) above - the port of New Haven is currently at a awkward position, as it soft-blocked the Long Island Sound. IRL the Long Island Sound near New Haven is actually the widest section of the Sound. The shape of Long Island Sound is narrow in the west but broad in the east, rather than having a straight coastline. Moreover, the city of New London, the location of a primary submarine base, is at the eastern end of the Long Island Sound; the sea hexes of the Long Island Sound should also leave space for a port attached to New London.
- Maybe the eastern part of the Long Island can move one hex southward, to leave more space to the Long Island Sound. I also noticed that the Long Island Sound in the current WWI map is more than 1 hex wide (it's a 1-2-1-2 wide shape).
- In addition, there are some forts at the east end of Long Island to protect the Sound as well as New London naval base. Although I am not sure how to represent a naval fort on the map - a fortification with a coastal gun unit?

6) Maybe add West Point between Yonkers and Poughkeepsie, as a fortified town on the Hudson River, in case someone try to cut the supply line north of NYC.


For non-NYC region:

7) Maybe some changes of the coastline can apply to the Lake Ontario in the future (say, in the Ontario episode of the map making), a straight coastline is bit weird.

8) IRL Plattsburgh have fortifications and barracks built in the aftermath of War of 1812, later abandoned in the late 19th century as there were no further US-Canada conflicts. In TL-191, the USA and Canada confrontation continues, this town would probably turned into a major US Army installation at USA-Canada border at 1914.

9) Kingston, ON actually didn't have a land connection/crossing with USA; this part of the St. Lawrence River is still pretty wide (the narrow parts are from Ogdensburg to Montreal). The only crossing on the St. Lawrence River between Niagara River and Montreal before WWI was New York and Ottawa Railway's bridge at Cornwall, ON (today's Three Nations Crossing). This railway connects New York state directly with Ottawa, a crucial piece of infrastructure. Maybe the land connection between USA-Canada can be moved at Cornwall.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/23/2020 10:28:16 PM)

An interesting side note: After some brief research, it seems like before IRL WWI the bridges crossing the St. Lawrence River were quite rare. Most bridges were at Montreal (the Quebec Bridge hadn't completed till 1917).
Outside Quebec, there was only one bridge connecting US and Canada on the St. Lawrence River at this point: the New York and Ottawa Railway's crossing at Cornwall, Ontario.
Basically, around IRL 1914, all land transportation across the St. Lawrence River would either use river ferries, go through Montreal, or Cornwall; choices were very limited. Don't know how this will affect map-making.



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/24/2020 3:49:56 PM)

@eightroomofelixir -

1) Done.

2) I hate to lose Staten Island, but there's no way of squeezing in a port there without deleting the city.

3) An oversight, now corrected, thanks.

4) I think I designed this bit of coastline before I realised that you could have land hexes with straight in between them, and you can't put cities on land-and-sea hexes, anyway, done.

5) Took a lot of re-designing (which is painful in this system) but done.

6) Done, as well as Newburgh

7) I had to fiddle with the Ontario coastline to get Rochester at the right latitude/longitude which is where that bit was created.

8) Done.

9) Will keep this in mind when I get around to designing Ontario.

See what it looks like here:



[image]local://upfiles/43674/0442D0A3D51A4C88BDB38535C69C6031.jpg[/image]



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 15 - New York State, the state so great they named it once (4/24/2020 6:57:21 PM)

Again, thank you for your hard work. I can tell that the changes around the Long Island took a lot of time and effort to make them look right. Looking forward to New England.



eightroomofelixir -> The Visual of City Hexes (4/24/2020 11:49:40 PM)

I noticed a thing a while before, it somehow bugged me, and I finally checked the map editor today.

I hate to say it, but, it seems like all the city hexes you have put on the map - judging by their visuals - are city hexes actually used to represent Asian cities in the WaW map. The ones with orange-rooftops are used for low latitude Indian and South East Asian cities, while those with grey-rooftops are for mid-high latitude Chinese and Japanese cities.

US cities in both WaW and WWI maps share the same visual as the European cities. They look more three-dimensional than the Asian cities, and their big cities have more large, square-looking buildings (probably indicating rowhouses).

Overall the US-European city hexes are all stone-and-brick-looking, more stand out; and the Asian cities are more wood-and-terracotta-looking, more flat.

Is this a suggestion...I don't know. I can image that replace every city hex will be sincerely painful.



FOARP -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 10:08:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

I noticed a thing a while before, it somehow bugged me, and I finally checked the map editor today.

I hate to say it, but, it seems like all the city hexes you have put on the map - judging by their visuals - are city hexes actually used to represent Asian cities in the WaW map. The ones with orange-rooftops are used for low latitude Indian and South East Asian cities, while those with grey-rooftops are for mid-high latitude Chinese and Japanese cities.

US cities in both WaW and WWI maps share the same visual as the European cities. They look more three-dimensional than the Asian cities, and their big cities have more large, square-looking buildings (probably indicating rowhouses).

Overall the US-European city hexes are all stone-and-brick-looking, more stand out; and the Asian cities are more wood-and-terracotta-looking, more flat.

Is this a suggestion...I don't know. I can image that replace every city hex will be sincerely painful.


This is by choice - I wanted US and CSA cities to be visibly different. I think changing them in the end should not be too difficult if it people want it - simply swap the images in the relevant bitmaps. Long term plan is to replace the Asian/African visuals with custom-made ones (e.g., clap-board houses/churches for CSA, red brick for USA).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Did you skip Maryland?


Here you go:



[image]local://upfiles/43674/64B64312FFC64440AA72A5B8D2BA32FE.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 10:41:09 AM)

E.g., here's what The Carolinas look like if I swap the red-roof town graphic for the yellow-roofed Mediterranean one in the relevant bitmap file - very simple to implement.



[image]local://upfiles/43674/035F6F36B8CD4E3A881CF41ADBEB0D19.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 12:14:34 PM)

....and here's what New York looks like if I just swap the Asian city graphics for the European ones in the resources bitmap. This took less than 10 minutes to do. However, I am going to continue using the African/Asian city graphics whilst building the map as place-holders for CSA/USA graphics. Probably for the Alpha map I will just use Mediterranean/European graphics but I want the option of using something different. Canada will have European graphics, whilst Mexico will use the Arabian graphics as they look like adobe houses (though if people object to this it is easy to swap them for Mediterranean graphics).

[image]local://upfiles/43674/7182B173BA5C4D3E93A1019042A26C11.jpg[/image]



Taxman66 -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 3:21:33 PM)

Maryland -
1) I think you could justify some sort of improved defense for Baltimore due to multiple rivers (Patapsco; Curtis Creek/Curtis Bay; Severn; Magothy; and couple others) along with Fort McHenrey. Perhaps a single hex river line directly south at the very least.

2) Not sure how important it was during the Civil War but there was a Gun Powder Mill in the hex south of Baltimore/north-east of Washington D.C.

3) The hex south of Washington should be a swamp/marsh hex.

4) Annapolis? Probably where that Forest hex is. Also note the Severn river north of Annapolis and the South River south of Annapolis.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 9:08:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP
This is by choice - I wanted US and CSA cities to be visibly different. I think changing them in the end should not be too difficult if it people want it - simply swap the images in the relevant bitmaps. Long term plan is to replace the Asian/African visuals with custom-made ones (e.g., clap-board houses/churches for CSA, red brick for USA).


That's very thoughtful, even ambitious, I would say. My imagination is simply limited to the original in-game asserts, as I tend to go conservative when modding, always work within the given resources and established limitations. Anyway, glad to hear that changing them is comparative easy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Maryland -


IMHO these are all good suggestions. Maryland needs more "texture" on the map, e.g. the Antietam battlefield can be marked on the map, next to Harpers Ferry, at least that is where "all things goes wrong" in the very beginning. (Maybe Harpers Ferry itself can also be a town? It's a very important crossing on the Potomac and Shenandoah anyway.)
We have also discussed about the defense of Baltimore / fortifications outside Washington in the TL-191 novels. USA should have some defenses (units, lines) before the main line at the Susquehanna River.

I also noticed several things on the picture of Maryland, Virginia, parts of Delaware and NJ:

1) The CSA units on the Delmarva Peninsula. In the novels, according to Kimball, USA controlled (or re-controlled) the entire peninsula and reached to the Virginia Capes as late as in Spring 1916. So I think USA may have more forces present on the peninsula, or CSA may stay in the defensive there. CSA can also clear the peninsula later if they successfully reach the Susquehanna.

2) It seems like part of the Delaware Bay hexes are land hexes of South NJ rather than sea hexes (and thus blocked the Philadelphia port)?



eightroomofelixir -> RE: New York and New England (4/25/2020 9:34:08 PM)

Since your picture shows the works you have done in the New England, I would also like to offer feedback about them:

1) The river goes from Pittsfield to New Haven, which I assume is the Housatonic River, should more closed to Bridgeport. There is also a big swamp at the mouth of the Housatonic River (been there before, it's a cold and moist, very English-looking river mouth - no wonder the place is called New England.)

2) The river goes from Springfield-Hartford, which I assume is the Connecticut River, should goes into Long Island Sound between New Haven and New London. The mouth of the Connecticut River is also a big wetland.

3) Cape Cod Canal can be put on the map - it is finished right before IRL WWI, and had seen military usages doing both World Wars.

4) Quincy, Massachusetts, a bit south from Boston, is the location of the Fore River Shipyard, one of the biggest shipbuilders in New England (they built USS Lexington). Maybe add one more major port there.

5) New England in general is very hilly; not as mountainous as Pennsylvania, but almost every major city in there (besides the part of MA south of Boston and east of Providence) as surrounded by hills. Between Pittsfield and Poughkeepsie are also major mountain ranges.



Taxman66 -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 10:51:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP
This is by choice - I wanted US and CSA cities to be visibly different. I think changing them in the end should not be too difficult if it people want it - simply swap the images in the relevant bitmaps. Long term plan is to replace the Asian/African visuals with custom-made ones (e.g., clap-board houses/churches for CSA, red brick for USA).


That's very thoughtful, even ambitious, I would say. My imagination is simply limited to the original in-game asserts, as I tend to go conservative when modding, always work within the given resources and established limitations. Anyway, glad to hear that changing them is comparative easy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Maryland -


IMHO these are all good suggestions. Maryland needs more "texture" on the map, e.g. the Antietam battlefield can be marked on the map, next to Harpers Ferry, at least that is where "all things goes wrong" in the very beginning. (Maybe Harpers Ferry itself can also be a town? It's a very important crossing on the Potomac and Shenandoah anyway.)
We have also discussed about the defense of Baltimore / fortifications outside Washington in the TL-191 novels. USA should have some defenses (units, lines) before the main line at the Susquehanna River.

I also noticed several things on the picture of Maryland, Virginia, parts of Delaware and NJ:

1) The CSA units on the Delmarva Peninsula. In the novels, according to Kimball, USA controlled (or re-controlled) the entire peninsula and reached to the Virginia Capes as late as in Spring 1916. So I think USA may have more forces present on the peninsula, or CSA may stay in the defensive there. CSA can also clear the peninsula later if they successfully reach the Susquehanna.

2) It seems like part of the Delaware Bay hexes are land hexes of South NJ rather than sea hexes (and thus blocked the Philadelphia port)?

quote:

IMHO these are all good suggestions. Maryland needs more "texture" on the map, e.g. the Antietam battlefield can be marked on the map, next to Harpers Ferry, at least that is where "all things goes wrong" in the very beginning. (Maybe Harpers Ferry itself can also be a town? It's a very important crossing on the Potomac and Shenandoah anyway.) We have also discussed about the defense of Baltimore / fortifications outside Washington in the TL-191 novels. USA should have some defenses (units, lines) before the main line at the Susquehanna River. I also noticed several things on the picture of Maryland, Virginia, parts of Delaware and NJ: 1) The CSA units on the Delmarva Peninsula. In the novels, according to Kimball, USA controlled (or re-controlled) the entire peninsula and reached to the Virginia Capes as late as in Spring 1916. So I think USA may have more forces present on the peninsula, or CSA may stay in the defensive there. CSA can also clear the peninsula later if they successfully reach the Susquehanna. 2) It seems like part of the Delaware Bay hexes are land hexes of South NJ rather than sea hexes (and thus blocked the Philadelphia port)?



Haven't read the novels so can't say anything about regards to them.

Harpers Ferry is a rather small present day, don't think it is worthy of a town representation. Although iirc it is rather difficult terrain (minor cliffs/steep roads etc). Maybe the hex should be hills?

D.C. -
You could easily put a river (Anacostia) on the south and southeast hexsides of Washington D.C.
The Hex north of Washington DC contains lots of decent sized towns: Bethesda/Rockville/Gaithersburg/Germantown/Silver Spring/Wheaton maybe that could be a town hex?
(though you'd have to check their population/development circa the timeline.



Interesting Note about Maryland regarding the Civil War (IRL):
Did you know that originally Maryland voted to succeed from the Union?
The Army of the Potomac then marched on (toward?) Annapolis. (Not sure of the exact timing) but Maryland took a re-count (re-vote?) and low and behold stayed loyal to the union.

If your picture represents starting units there would've been a much larger and experienced force in D.C. (at least IRL) than what you have depicted.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 11:07:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Harpers Ferry is a rather small present day, don't think it is worthy of a town representation. Although iirc it is rather difficult terrain (minor cliffs/steep roads etc). Maybe the hex should be hills?


Yes, it is rather small. Consider the strategic position, maybe a fortress.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Interesting Note about Maryland regarding the Civil War (IRL): Did you know that originally Maryland voted to succeed from the Union?


Maryland was at a very awkward position in 1861. However, the current modded game is at 1914, as based on the novels, and it is at another timeline, different from ours.
IIRC the Maryland legislature voted 53-13 against convening a secessionist convention if the people of Virginia seceded. Anyway, that's not the focus of this thread though.



Taxman66 -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/25/2020 11:26:12 PM)

Derp. Sorry, somehow got my wires crossed there.



FOARP -> RE: The Visual of City Hexes (4/26/2020 9:39:24 AM)

Here's the Maryland re-work. A few notes:

1) Right now units are just for show so I wouldn't read anything into where they are placed or how many of them there are.

2) Rivers work in a really cludgy way in this system so it is very difficult to add in tributaries of larger rivers and I'm not going to do it for minor ones. I've added the Patapsco and the Choptank - and the second one only because it has an awesome name!

3) Maryland is supposed to mostly fall early so I'm going to make sure this happens - the AI CSA should be able to storm Washington and then advance north, a human USA player should not be able to simply stop them in Maryland. This is key otherwise this mod will not be challenging to play as the USA against the AI, because they can just operate units in and hold the line.

4) Antietam added.

5) I'll wait until I'm doing my next play though to see how the port near Philly works. I'm generally loath to alter the coastline because it's a pain in the neck to do, but we'll see what needs doing.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/D0BA430FCFB34B8DAE54C66F2F73C080.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 16 - Meet the New England... not quite the same as the Old England (4/26/2020 10:12:27 AM)

Creating the Map part 16 - Meet the New England... not quite the same as the Old England

Hello again. This time I am focusing on the states making up New England. Since the US Navy has lost its bases on the Gulf of Mexico, and since Chesapeake Bay is now a Confederate lake, New England is a major base for naval units. Particularly Boston but also New London and elsewhere.

With the loss of the territory of northern Maine claimed by the UK in the Second Mexican War, Maine has lost Aroostook county, but will try to recover it in the coming conflict.

Mining in the area was not huge, but apparently the barite and copper mines in Cheshire, Connecticut were at one stage the largest mining complex in New England so for the moment these are the ones I'm putting.

(as an aside, I considered the Cape Cod canal but adding it in would totally mess up the coastline given the limitations of the coastline implementation in this system, however all suggestions are welcome).

[image]local://upfiles/43674/91BFAC5A38394E79A18812068126CF43.jpg[/image]



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 16 - Meet the New England... not quite the same as the Old England (4/26/2020 8:36:57 PM)

Congratulations on the works done in New England and the beginning of Maritime Provinces. Anyway, incoming thoughts and feedback:

0) (This isn't a suggestion, just thoughts) The Chesapeake Bay isn't a Confederate lake in the novels (since Baltimore and Delmarva Peninsula never fell) but a Confederate lake now, the result of USA's lacking of naval bases in the south will be interesting. Looking forward to see how this will play out in-game.

1) Right at the border between NH and ME, there is the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, the northernmost naval shipyard in the US east coast, a major submarine builder during both World Wars. (Although named after Portsmouth, NH, the shipyard is actually located at Kittery, ME, an island at the opposite of Portsmouth.)
On the other hand, Dover, NH isn't a port town, while Portsmouth, NH, at the downstream of Dover, is.
Maybe change Dover, NH to Portsmouth, NH.

2) A side note for Bangor, ME: Since the Bangor is very inland on the Penobscot River, the port of Bangor will freeze (river freezes, not the ocean) during the winter.

3) Maybe change the plain hexes around Lake Champlain into hills or mountains. IRL only northern end of Lake Champlain are flat lands, the lake is in general surrounded by high mountains.

4) The railroad goes from Bangor-Machias to Canada, was a railway branch line known as the Calais Branch of Maine Central Railroad Co.. IRL It was never the main connection between Maine and Canada, and the service was discontinued since 1950s. The main rail connection between Maine and Canada IRL is a part of Maine Central Railroad later purchased by Canadian Pacific Railway, which goes from Bangor to inland, and entering Canada at Vanceboro, ME.
This part of the railway was originally built by European and North American Railway and finished in 1871, long before US-Canada confrontation in the novels (which began at the Second Mexican War, 1882). Therefore the railway probably still existed in TL-191's 1914.
Interestingly, IRL during WWI, a German spy tried to bomb the international rail bridge at Vanceboro in 1915, in order to disrupt the war material transportation on Canadian Pacific Railway. (However, since US was still neutral in 1915, Canadian war material were routed to other railways.)
Maybe route the railway between Bangor and Canada to more inland?

5) The British claims over Maine before the Aroostook War, was not only the Aroostook County, but also included the northern parts of Somerset, Piscataquis, and Penobscot countries as well. Basically, the entire watershed of Aroostook River and Saint John River. This would result a border at roughly the same latitude as Woodstock, NB.
Maybe move the USA-Canada border at Maine (west of Houlton) further south.

Looking forward to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 16 - Meet the New England... not quite the same as the Old England (4/27/2020 4:28:19 PM)

@eightroomofelixir - Thanks, you're pretty good at reading the map, especially working out what I was actually trying to do when I get stuff wrong!

1) Done.

2) Will keep this in mind when I get round to doing weather.

3) Done.


[image]local://upfiles/43674/D8AC6C719D8343B493663A9DB585B35A.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 17 - Canadian Maritimes (4/27/2020 4:55:49 PM)

Creating the Map part 17 - Canadian Maritimes

Hello. Creation of the map for this Southern Victory/USA v. CSA mod has now taken us out of the USA again and into the USA's neighbour to the north. Whilst historically US-Canadian relations have been more or less friendly for the past 150 years, this is not the case in Timeline-191. Instead, the part played by the UK in the break-up of the USA, and the annexation of northern Maine to New Brunswick after the Second Mexican War of 1881, has left relations between the British Empire (including the Dominion of Canada) and the rump United States distinctly frosty.

For Canada's Maritime provinces (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Nova Scotia) the outbreak of war with the USA is not welcome news. All three have small populations, weak defences, and (for the most part) little in the way of choke-points to be held against an invader if the Yanks come in force.

New Brunswick is likely to get hit hardest - it's two main towns are either too close to the US (Saint John) or have too many avenues of approach (Moncton). Prince Edward Island is mostly rural and basically defenceless against an invader that reaches the Abegweit Passage. Only Nova Scotia has the advantage of a narrow isthmus that must be crossed before the province can be invaded in earnest, and with reinforcement from the mother country via the major port of Halifax might be defended for some time. Nova Scotia is also home to the only mining complex in the region, at Sydney.

(As an aside I recently watched the Michael Portillo/BBC rail travel documentary about travelling through Canada that was great to watch and from which I have taken a lot of inspiration for this mod. PEI looks a bit big perhaps, but it's a choice between making it too big and too small really, and "too big" won)




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eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 17 - Canadian Maritimes (4/27/2020 7:55:30 PM)

The Maritime Provinces are really well done, notably the Grand Trunk Railway and the Intercolonial Railway.

Other things worth considering:

1) There is a railway line connecting Houlton-Woodstock-Fredericton, built by New Brunswick Land and Railway Company in the early 1880s.

2) Moncton is on the banks of the Petitcodiac River, which is considerably wide and muddy, worth putting on the map and used as a defensive measure.

3) I don't think there exist a major river north and west of Halifax; on the other hand, Halifax does have a large body of ocean north (Bedford Basin) and east (Halifax Harbor) of it.

4) Thoughts on the defense of Maritime Provinces.

The Canadian Maritimes are basically rural and sparsely populated, although some defensive positions did exist. UK built several forts for protecting the eastern Canadian seaboard when the USA-UK relationship wasn't that great in the early 18th century. These early fortifications are in and around Amherst (as you already put on the map), Saint John, and Halifax.

If the USA-UK relationship became much worse in the late 18th century (as in the novel), UK would have built more fortifications, since Halifax and its rail connections to Canadian Hinterland are crucial for Canada's survival.

I suggest we can use War Plan Red as the reference. In the Plan, Moncton and Halifax were main US war objectives in the east; an amphibious landing would outflank Halifax at St. Margarets Bay. It would be natural for UK to have some defensive installments on the largest harbor and the most important railway junction on the Canadian east coast.

- For instance, some defensive lines can be put in the west of Moncton. Halifax can have defensive lines around it in case of an amphibious landing, so as Saint John. Edmundston can also have a small defensive line, as the road from Houlton to Edmundston has many towns on it, the supply situation on the road will be adequate for an invasion.

Anyway, I agree that these additional defenses shouldn't be too strong, as the Nova Scotia had largely fallen in 1915 in the novels. Poor Canada can only use Quebec City as the main port to receive British supply from the east after that.



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 17 - Canadian Maritimes (4/28/2020 9:20:45 PM)

1) Done.

2) Good spot. Done.

3) Yeah, don't know why I did that. Fixed.

4) We'll see how the balance looks in play testing. I'm hesitant to put forts in New Brunswick without troops to man them, and there are unlikely to be many troops in New Brunswick given that it's going to take ~40 units to even just do point-defence along the US-Canadian border. Even with British support, it's not believable that Canada could have had much more than a combined total of 40 brigade/division/corps sized units, so I'm not going to be putting fortifications (and by extension additional units) into places that the books say fell quickly.

There's a few things that with a bit more time I'd like to fix - Cape Breton island should be separated from the mainland (the coastlines system makes this difficult), for example, but for now it looks OK.

Here's what the Maritimes look like now:



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FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 17 - Canadian Maritimes (4/28/2020 9:32:15 PM)

....OK, so I just couldn't leave that bit undone and had a go at it. I think this actually looks a bit better. I understand that the Strait of Canso wasn't actually bridged until the 1950s (using a causeway) but since a proposal for bridging it was in the works from the late 19th century onwards let's just assume it was bridged earlier. Alternatively the railway/road hex includes ferries.





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FOARP -> Creating the Map part 18 - Newfoundland (4/30/2020 6:28:31 AM)

Creating the Map part 18 - Newfoundland

We're now moving into some rather more sparsely populated parts of the map which I do not intend to spend a great amount of time on, so the detail in these parts may be a bit less. Here we have the British-ruled island of New Foundland. For the purposes of the game I am making the UK capital St. John - it was a choice between Newfoundland, another British colony (e.g., Jamaica) or putting a random hex at the western edge of the map and making that London. None of these solutions is ideal but for the moment I am going with this one - but I may change this later. I have done the same with France, it's capital (and only on-map territory) being in the French colony of St. Pierre & Miquelon.

(Gotta be honest: I’m thinking Newfoundland by itself would be a great place to fight an amphibious campaign, landing in the west and fighting overland to get to the capital in St. John with all the natural barriers and choke-points in the way and reinforcements coming in from both sides. BTW - even applying relatively little detail, even just creating Newfoundland was the work of more than an hour (2-3 at a guess) especially if the time spent on the coastlines - which still aren’t perfect - is included)



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eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 18 - Newfoundland (5/1/2020 1:29:43 AM)

Newfoundland looks really detailed, I can image it being a back-up base for Royal Navy in the game.

Speaking of amphibious assault, how many sea hexes are between Sydney and Port aux Basques? If it is relatively short then an amphibious assault would be very worth considering.

An interesting side note: I noticed there are "Pillbox" units in the editor. The are considered as a static defensive infantry unit (they cannot move, thus fully defensive and cannot be use elsewhere), with a default maximum strength of 5, and a cheap prince of 100 MPPs.

I would suggest this unit can be useful for a small scale point-defense for Canada/USA borders or CSA/Mexican western borders, since they all have very sparse population along it. Or it can be used for some second-level defensive line, placed one hex apart in a line. Or USA can build it in newly occupied land. Either way, some play testings are needed.

(An example of using pillbox for point-defense IRL is in Japanese-occupied part of the China during WWII. Japanese forces behind the Chinese frontlines was troubled by the vast countryside, so they build many pillboxes for counter-insurgency, usually one town each.)



Alikchi2 -> RE: Creating the Map part 18 - Newfoundland (5/1/2020 5:46:11 PM)

Please keep it up, this is good and inspiring work!

Will you be illustrating the diplomacy/events aspect of modding as well? Would love to learn how to set that up.



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