RE: Sequoyah & Missouri (Full Version)

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FOARP -> RE: Sequoyah & Missouri (8/23/2020 9:16:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

MOAR MOUNTAINS! *snip!*



All good points. I've revised the map accordingly (see below). As an explanation as to why my maps often lack mountains - typically I'm looking at an elevation map of the entire state and/or maps showing regions within the state. The problem with elevation maps is they often miss out roughness (which is what generates hillyness as much as simply elevation) and region maps often have arbitrary borders - e.g., a mountainous region will have its foothills cut off because they don't fall within the state/provincial/national park that covers those mountains. I definitely encourage you to keep correcting me on this as it save the map from having too many wide open, empty spaces.

One of the problems with the methodology suggested by the manual (get a map, lay down a hex-grid on it, then create the map from that) is there simply aren't maps that have the kind of detail required by the game so you're always going to be consulting multiple maps during your build. You would need a map showing city locations, infra, elevation, forest-cover, agricultural land-use, rivers, wetlands, resources etc. at the exact resolution required by you map. However, it would at least have helped me get a better fix on the location of cities deep in the interior of the continent - I think dead-reckoning errors are beginning to drift in a bit.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/97129554A3CE4E57B040C096996B8637.jpg[/image]



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Sequoyah & Missouri (8/23/2020 4:37:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP
quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir
MOAR MOUNTAINS! *snip!*

All good points. I've revised the map accordingly (see below). As an explanation as to why my maps often lack mountains - typically I'm looking at an elevation map of the entire state and/or maps showing regions within the state. The problem with elevation maps is they miss out roughness (which is what generates hillyness as much as simply elevation) and region maps often have arbitrary borders - e.g., a mountainous region will have its foothills cut off because they don't fall within the state/provincial/national park that covers those mountains. I definitely encourage you to keep correcting me on this as it save the map from having too many wide open, empty spaces.

One of the problems with the methodology suggested by the manual (get a map, lay down a hex-grid on it, then create the map from that) is there simply aren't maps that have the kind of detail required by the game so you're always going to be consulting multiple maps during your build. You would need a map showing city locations, infra, elevation, forest-cover, agricultural land-use, rivers, wetlands, resources etc. at the exact resolution required by you map. However, it would at least have helped me get a better fix on the location of cities deep in the interior of the continent - I think dead-reckoning errors are beginning to drift in a bit.


Thanks for understanding my "obsession" with mountains (lol). My thought possess is similar: North America has more land than Europe geographically, which means there will be a huge amount of lands/open spaces on a North American map. How to (re)balance and bring the variety to this new land-sea ratio - or the plain-mountain-plateau ratio - can be a major challenge. I definitely like the way you deal with this.



Elessar2 -> RE: Sequoyah & Missouri (8/23/2020 4:41:11 PM)

I'm running across the exact same issues on my 20km scale Euro map (tho I am about to wrap up the North American coastlines today). The entire Canadian Maritimes were VERY tricky to get everything reasonably in place and to scale [I use Google Maps and a custom hex grid overlaid, note the km scale bar on the lower right of Google's screen hunt for the right tile rinse repeat)-in the worst cases it is off by maybe 2 hexes.

As you said that is a cakewalk compared to all of the mountains/forests/hills/marshes that I will be working on next... [X(]



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 44 - Kentucky (8/25/2020 1:31:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BiteNibbleChomp


quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP

Basically the goal here is to make sense out of the attack from the north (by Custer) and east (by Pershing) on Kentucky described in the books by providing good transport links in those places.



Been a while since I last read the books, but from memory Custer's 1st Army attacked much further to the west, following the Bowling Green-Nashville axis, which would suggest a starting point around Evansville.
I checked the books and the first chapter with Custer in it mentions his initial HQ being in St Louis, not a likely location if he was going to start his attack near Covington :)

You might also want to label the Cumberland Gap on the map? (Near the joint border between KY, TN and VA) I'm not sure if it comes up in the series at all, but it was a notable attack route during the Civil War and had been used by traders and explorers since the middle of the 18th century.

Looks like you're going along quite nicely! Excited to see this done :)

- BNC


BTW - as the TL-191 books are now available on Kindle (they weren't last I checked though this was a few years ago) I've bought them and am re-reading them: you're right, Custer's initial HQ is in St. Louis, he then transfers it to Independence, Illinois. He launches his assault-crossing at Metropolis, Illinois (i.e., west of Paducah). The attack on Covington must be being made by Pershing's army.



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 49 - Iowa (8/27/2020 8:13:28 PM)

Creating the Map part 49 - Iowa

Welcome again! Today we visit the Hawkeye State, the last state of the Mississippi valley in this build. For Iowa, De Moines is the only significant urban centre and there is not much in the way of mining, but the plains in the south of the state provide plenty of space for agriculture.

My biggest challenge in creating this state was just trying to determine the actual extent of hills in this (famously flat) state. Looking at maps you see areas of high elevation, but looking at photos of, say, Hawkeye point (the highest point in the state) it looks flat as a pancake. I think I got it about right but please feel free to let me know if you have any suggestions.

Next stops: the Dakotas, Manitoba, and then along the southern US border.



[image]local://upfiles/43674/CD550A5020BD4EE0AB188C8D892A85C3.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 50 - Dakota (8/30/2020 1:18:22 PM)

Creating the Map part 50 - Dakota

Hello again! Now we're clearing off an immense slice of the map in the form of the US state of Dakota (in this timeline the Dakota territory was admitted as a single state, without the politicking that historically divided it into North and South Dakota). For such a huge territory it has little of economic value - Bismarck, as capital, is the only urban centre, and the primary value of the territory is the logistical links that run east-west across it.

Some of the transport links/rivers may seem incomplete at their western ends - this is because I'm not yet clear how they're going to extend further to the west and am leaving this to when I do Wyoming etc.

As normal any and all corrections and suggestions are welcome. Apologies for the low image quality, which is forced on me by the very restrictive maximum image size allowed on the SC:WW1 forum of 200KB (for completely inexplicable reasons, the limit on the SC:WIE forum is 5000KB, far larger - I've asked why the limit here can't be raised on the site feedback thread but have received no answer: I encourage other people to complain as well).

PS - 50th episode of this! To be honest, when I started I thought I would have finished this ages ago....

EDIT: PPS - One other change I've made is that the Missouri river is now a major river. As it gathers so many other rivers this was somewhat necessary in order to highlight it I think, but let me know if you disagree.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/085193CAC4B64FBBA61A9D0E4EE41B3D.jpg[/image]



Elessar2 -> RE: Creating the Map part 50 - Dakota (8/30/2020 4:11:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP
PS - 50th episode of this! To be honest, when I started I thought I would have finished this ages ago....



Oh my no. [sm=dizzy.gif]

First rule of designing such monsters is that it will likely take around twice as long as you thought. And just wait until you get a working alpha where you can finally test the thing in the game. It took me almost exactly two months to get all of the major coastlines finished in my magnum opus.



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 51 - Manitoba (9/4/2020 1:23:43 PM)

Creating the Map part 51 - Manitoba

Hi Again. This time we're back north of the border in Canada, in Manitoba, the gateway to the Canadian Prairies. Winnipeg is the only city of any significance in this province, the main value of which is in its transportation links between east and west. I had to spend a long time getting the lakes right in this and am not going to bother doing the smaller lakes to the east of Lake Winnipeg - marshy terrain will have to suffice.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/27D9C12FAF794985A2D48D9A85BCFFB3.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 52 - New Mexico (9/6/2020 10:18:20 AM)

Creating the Map part 52 - New Mexico

Hi. This time we're on the southern border of the US, in New Mexico. Historically even Albuquerque only had a population of around 15,000 people at this time so even making a town is a bit of an exaggeration, albeit a defensible one as otherwise New Mexico would have no economic value at all in this game. Otherwise the state is primarily a jumping-off point for the slog across the desert into Confederate Texas.

Next stops: Arizona, Nevada, Kansas, Nebraska, and then along the Canadian border.



[image]local://upfiles/43674/31350E7B7A224FDD948FA4DD2DD0E908.jpg[/image]



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 52 - New Mexico (9/6/2020 3:43:28 PM)

I like how you put Truth or Consequences here.[:D]



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 52 - New Mexico (9/11/2020 10:09:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

I like how you put Truth or Consequences here.[:D]

quote:

Creating the Map part 52 - New Mexico


Cheers! And maybe some things will crash at Roswell in this mod....



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 53 - Arizona (9/11/2020 10:17:14 PM)

Creating the Map part 53 - Arizona

Hello again! This time we've moved further west along the southern border of the USA to the state of Arizona. Only one urban centre of any value is included in the state (Phoenix). The state is dominated by its geological features, especially the Grand Canyon which I have decided to model as an impassible depression. The harp-eyed may note that the historical railway lines that crossed the state east-to-west are NOT included here. The ONLY trans-continental railways that the USA will have at the start of this scenario will be those that run through or close to the rebellious state of Utah - if you want to be sure of being able to catch the 3:10 to Yuma you're either going to have to keep the Mormon rebels of Utah away from the railways or invest the substantial MPP needed to finish extending the line from Gallup, New Mexico across to Flagstaff, Arizona.

EDIT: Am now six months into this map build!



[image]local://upfiles/43674/A4BB291EC87747E7BB43EB421C2969D8.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 54 - Nevada (9/12/2020 7:26:18 PM)

Creating the Map part 54 - Nevada

Not much to say about this one - the only thing of real importance is the two railways that cross it.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/8E7BD6F362044B1F8CE4B13FEDDD05C0.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 54 - Kansas (9/13/2020 12:37:09 PM)

Creating the Map part 54 - Kansas

Kansas is famously flat so this one was relatively easy. The infrastructure connecting Kansas to Sequoyah (Oklahoma) is limited as befits states in two separate and antagonistic countries.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/0BFA35798C32453CB5825253B51559F7.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 55 - Nebraska (9/13/2020 4:21:40 PM)

Creating the Map part 55 - Nebraska

Yet another state with not in the much of geography to get too wrong (or at least I hope not).

Still left to do:

Canada - Saskatchewan, Alberta.
US - Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Utah.

Saskatchewan and Alberta are likely to take some time due to size, otherwise the main difficult is likely to be putting in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe 2-3 weeks more work to lay down terrain? Then a general clean-up, convoys, add in Japan, put in weather zones, and get started on the events....

[image]local://upfiles/43674/1DD97C13B7B54DD0A0F31FF7C90CD251.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 55 - Nebraska (9/15/2020 7:18:32 AM)

(PS - Lincoln, Nebraska, is not called that for obvious reasons)



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 56 - Saskatchewan (9/18/2020 1:05:33 PM)

Creating the Map part 56 - Saskatchewan

Hi Again. This time we're visiting a huge piece of real estate right in the middle of Canada. As with a lot of the middle of the map, the main thing of value to the player in this area are the infrastructure links. In this case three massive railways cross the province from east to west - the Canadian Pacific in the south via Regina, the Grand Trunk Pacific railway in the middle via Yorkton, and the Canadian Northern Railway in the north via Prince Albert. The area also sees a link via The Pas in Manitoba to Port Nelson on Hudson Bay that the Canadians can choose to have built if the Canadian Atlantic ports are cut off.

Invading the area directly should be difficult for the US as the cities are well back from the frontier with no roads connecting to the US - that's by design so that Canadian player has less in the way of frontier areas to hold.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/9821DBE15D2346BC8A4C494709CA8E82.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 57 - Alberta (9/19/2020 10:50:34 AM)

Creating the Map part 57 - Alberta

Here we are where the Canadian prairies meet the Canadian Rockies. As you can see in Alberta there are three major transport routes going east-west: in the south the Canadian Pacific line that crosses the Rockies via Crows Nest Pass, in the middle the CP line through the Rockies via Kicking Horse Pass, and in the north the Canadian Northern Railway line via Yellowhead Pass that links up to the Grand Trunk Pacific line that meets the Pacific at the port of Prince Rupert.

Now Canada is finally done and there is only the last bit of the USA to finish (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado).

(apologies by the low image quality, the 200kb limit hs not been lifted in the mod forum)



[image]local://upfiles/43674/A7E4BD27E799458495833487A302A9C9.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 58 - Idaho (9/20/2020 3:40:36 PM)

Creating the Map part 58 - Idaho

Hello again. This time we're filing in the sparsely-populated state of Idaho. The most important features here (other than the mountains) are the impassable "Craters of the Moon" lava fields and the Union Pacific railway that cross the south of the state on its way to rebellious Utah.

Next stop - Montana.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/32764CBA14C1446F89BCAD05995CBFD4.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 59 - Montana (9/23/2020 6:58:23 PM)

Creating the Map part 59 - Montana

One more state down - three left to go (Wyoming, Colorado, Utah).

Surprisingly the town of Butte, MT was the biggest city in Montana back around 1910-20 - at a guess this was due to a local mining boom. The US has enough mines already but to give some MPP value to Montana I've made Butte a town. Otherwise my main challenge in making this part of the map was simply to include all the various mountain ranges of Montana. The historic railway line across the Rockies via Lookout Pass is not built in this timeline - the only trans-continental links are those going through or near the rebellious state of Utah.

Any comments or criticism are welcome.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/BE8DD308A5C04AB6A750DBF5DBC0FD3B.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 60 - Wyoming (9/26/2020 4:44:05 PM)

Creating the Map part 60 - Wyoming

Not much to say about Wyoming - the Union Pacific line crosses in the south of the state on its way to rebellious Utah, the only urban centre worth mentioning is the capital at Cheyenne.

One more state down, now only two left to go (Colorado and Utah).

[image]local://upfiles/43674/286696B223494453AD5A6E9222702915.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 61 - Colorado (9/27/2020 8:38:08 PM)

Creating the Map part 61 - Colorado

And now here we are at the penultimate state in this map build. Colorado is of course an extremely mountainous state and home to one of the two main rail routes acorss the continental USA.

Next - the final state in this build, Utah!

[image]local://upfiles/43674/F7E630A7F001471986842C4FF851612A.jpg[/image]



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (9/30/2020 7:20:17 PM)

Creating the Map part 62 - Utah

And now finally we arrive in the land of the Latter-Day Saints! The state of Utah is dominated by deserts, mountains, and the Great Salt Lake, which between them restrict the options of anyone wishing to put down a rebellion there.

This is the final part of the map that needed filling in, but alas even the task of building the map does not stop here: I still need to give the map a copy-edit, put in convoys and weather zones, decide on national morale objectives, industrial centres, and supply centres. And then there are events and AI to be programmed!

In total figures the map has:
400 x 152 = 60,800 hexes, of which roughly half are land hexes
809 named geographical features
1099 named resources

Only play testing can show whether this turns out to be too big to viably play (a concern I've had since the start of this) but looking at the main battle zones (Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, southern Ontario) in reality they're not so big and should be manageable.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/A2701EC1E59B4A2695A55DB75BC117FD.jpg[/image]



BiteNibbleChomp -> RE: Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (10/1/2020 2:37:27 AM)

That's a lot of work! Great job on finishing the map :)

- BNC



Bufo -> RE: Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (10/1/2020 2:34:07 PM)

Congratulations on completing the mapping! Been watching over the months and am still excited for the finished product :)



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (10/1/2020 3:47:40 PM)

Congratulations for the hard work!



OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (10/2/2020 5:18:37 AM)

These maps are brilliant..and as one that drove heavy trucks throughout the Western 11 states for a few decades on basically every legal road (and not so legal road haha), I can attest the accuracy of your town, road, and geographical placements. As for the question of 'if this is too big to be manageable?', I think it at least will capture the whole expanse of this portion of the planet....and anyway, some of us like monster games! [:D]



FOARP -> RE: Creating the Map part 62 - Utah (10/2/2020 11:44:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BiteNibbleChomp

That's a lot of work! Great job on finishing the map :)

- BNC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bufo

Congratulations on completing the mapping! Been watching over the months and am still excited for the finished product :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

Congratulations for the hard work!

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

These maps are brilliant..and as one that drove heavy trucks throughout the Western 11 states for a few decades on basically every legal road (and not so legal road haha), I can attest the accuracy of your town, road, and geographical placements. As for the question of 'if this is too big to be manageable?', I think it at least will capture the whole expanse of this portion of the planet....and anyway, some of us like monster games! [:D]


Thanks a lot guys! Feedback of any kind is always welcome as it helps me stay motivated (and improves the map!). If the map has stayed fairly accurate, a lot of this is down to the comments and corrections you've been giving.

Looking forward to when this is going to hit Alpha, I'm thinking probably the end of the year - maybe October to put in the finishing touches on the map, November for events and OOBs, and December to at least start on the AI.



FOARP -> Creating the Map part 63 - Tweaks (10/4/2020 3:26:56 PM)

Creating the Map part 63 - Tweaks

I've spent the past few days going over the map and giving it a good copy edit, concentrating particularly on the areas I did first in view of what I've learned over the past six months. I've implemented a lot of smaller changes but the larger ones can be seen in the image below:

1) The books aren't clear as to whether Puerto Rico was bought from Spain by the CSA along with Cuba. In fact the books never mention Puerto Rico at all which rather suggests that it is not part of the CSA. The books do also mention Spanish ships of the North American coast so this might indicate that the Spanish still maintain a presence in the New World. Considering the absence of other countries which can be influence onto either side in the war I've decided to make Puerto Rico territory of a neutral Spain portrayed asa minor power, a base for the Spanish pre-dreadnought battleship Pelayo and a naval infantry division. Bring Spain onto your side in this conflict and you will gain a convoy and a dreadnought appearing on the far side of the Atlantic.

2) The Japanese appear in the books fighting on the side of the British against the USA in the Pacific. I've decided the best way to portray this is by including the Mariana islands, obviously positioned way to the east of where they actually are, but I think putting them closer is forgivable for game play purposes. In the books the Japanese defeated the Spanish in a war in the Pacific and took their Pacific colonies, so the Marianas are entirely occupied by the Japanese. The Japanese are a major power favourable to the Entente and have a modern fleet complete with dreadnoughts, and a strong contingent of naval infantry - both are important if the Entente are to win the conflict for the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii). Japan starts the conflict as a neutral on the Entente side so the UK will have to offer the Japanese some thing to get them on side - or use diplomatic influence.

3) The British need a Pacific base after they lose the Sandwich Islands, so I've added Midway with a hefty port complex and Naval Infantry division waiting to go.

4) I've given the Sandwich Islands a heavy edit, expanding the size of them. Obviously they are no longer to scale but again I think this is forgivable for gameplay purposes. I've also made the Sandwich Islands and Entente minor so you can force them to surrender and thus take the entirety of the archipelago without having to invade every single island. I'm thinking of doing something similar to other British possessions (e.g., the Bahamas) but I need to make my mind up on this.

5) I've similarly expanded the UK base at Bermuda so that attackers have somewhere to land.

Things I'm thinking about doing but haven't made my mind up about: adding Germany as a CP major power. On the plus side this means there is a CP great power in the game other than the US and would simulate the German involvement in the naval war. On the negative side this means adding a German port at the eastern edge of the map and having a very small major power (maybe 20-40 MPP a turn?) that only operates a few naval units. Making Germany a minor power would be meaningless as the US player would probably just spend the MPP on the North American war.

[image]local://upfiles/43674/38C5B84048714E85B3FC839E28346B04.jpg[/image]



Jazon -> RE: Creating the Map part 63 - Tweaks (10/5/2020 10:16:15 AM)

Hi! What layer did U use for Pearl harbour? Are there any extras for fortification? Where can I found them?
Cheers! Enourmous work!



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