Stugs unable to carry squads. (Full Version)

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RaidR -> Stugs unable to carry squads. (6/30/2001 11:25:00 PM)

When playing a german long campaign I noticed that StugsIIIb were unable to carry complete squads. I tested this for the Stuh and long 75mm Stugs also but neither seemed to be able to carry more than 6 persons, which kills all the other men in the squad, and gets noted in your score. Has the stugs carrying capacity been changed by mistake? or is there a reason why it has been reduced?



RockinHarry -> (7/1/2001 10:44:00 PM)

Donīt know what tables the OOB designers take to set the load costs for various vehicles. On many many WW2 photos I saw frequently more than twice as much grunts riding on all these vehicles as youīre allowed to in SPWAW. 15! on Stug, 12 on Panther, 10 on Sherman...Maybe SPWAW values are any kind of "book" values? At last who used them?? :eek: ________ Harry



MacCready -> (7/1/2001 11:26:00 PM)

I'd say that simply tanks were not designed to carry troops,yes troops have and will ride on them,but seriously would you want to be on a tank in the middle of cambat,I think not... So I think that limiting the number that can ride is a good thing...



Del -> (7/1/2001 11:38:00 PM)

Maybe troops did not ordinarily ride tanks into battle, except maybe crazy Ivan ;). I have seen photos of small numbers of infantry on tanks riding into combat for other nations besides the USSR. Nations other than the USSR put whole squads on and rode them as transport regularly. Unfortunately I don't see a way of keeping players from doing things that were not done historically. So maybe that is why the numbers are low for tank riders.



tracer -> (7/2/2001 12:07:00 AM)

It was one of the v4 iterations when the load capacities were reduced; I remember cuz before then I would buy leg infantry vs motorized when creating my core force and use my armor to bring them up. I also remember several threads back then complaining about the tactic of using carried infantry as 'reactive armor' to preserve your AFVs...I wonder if this had something to do with the reduction. IMO the capacity should be increased on certain vehicles based on size/configuration. In version 4.x one of the film clips in it showed a Tiger rolling across what looked like Russian steppe with alot more men on it than the OOB said could be there! I'm pretty sure the recent versions of SPWAW don't factor loaded infantry when determining the effects of a hit on a vehicle, so *if* these reductions were made to discourage the old 'reactive armor tactic', it seems to me that some could be increased now. I did have a separate carry-capacity question also: in one scenario my Japanese squad of 18 men was pre-loaded onto a truck whose maximum was 12. Once I unloaded them the whole squad could not be reloaded again...did they forget where they were sitting before? :p



RockinHarry -> (7/2/2001 1:06:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by tracer: I did have a separate carry-capacity question also: in one scenario my Japanese squad of 18 men was pre-loaded onto a truck whose maximum was 12. Once I unloaded them the whole squad could not be reloaded again...did they forget where they were sitting before? :p
Designer trick maybe? In SPWAW Editor you can change already loaded units to something else...even if it has higher load costs! :eek: Example: Load one of the 8 men soviet tank riders onto a T-34 in the editor. Then access the loaded unit with N-key (next). "Change the current unit to a different type" with apropriate button to maybe a T-60. Result: A T-34 loaded with a T-60 !!!! :D Once you unload such "loadees" in the game you canīt reload them of course... ____________ Harry [ July 01, 2001: Message edited by: RockinHarry ]



Mike Wood -> (7/2/2001 1:41:00 AM)

Hello... There were issues involved in troop carry capacity other than how many men could be squeezed onto the vehicle. One major issue was cross-country speed. One might be able to pack 10 or 12 or 15 or more people onto a Stug, but there is no way in the game to reduce the vehicle speed when carrying people on the deck. The Stug with 15 men sitting on the deck, while tooling along at 24 mph, or so, cross country, would have folks falling off, quite often. We also have no way to separate these men from the squad or assess their fates. Hope this helps... Michael Wood



tracer -> (7/2/2001 11:23:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by RockinHarry: Designer trick maybe? In SPWAW Editor you can change already loaded units to something else...even if it has higher load costs! :eek: Example: Load one of the 8 men soviet tank riders onto a T-34 in the editor. Then access the loaded unit with N-key (next). "Change the current unit to a different type" with apropriate button to maybe a T-60. Result: A T-34 loaded with a T-60 !!!! :D Once you unload such "loadees" in the game you canīt reload them of course... ____________ Harry [ July 01, 2001: Message edited by: RockinHarry ]
That 'designer trick' is what it must have been. Wish I'd known about it beforehand: in that scenario (vs the Aussies) those Japanese units had a long way to travel, and the couple that I unloaded never made it to the front lines. A T-60 on a T-34? What a great idea! Kinda like a lifeboat ;)



toh -> (7/2/2001 7:19:00 PM)

Dear Sirs, Using the 105 on a Stuh while 15 grunts mounted is a bad idea afterall :( Regards



Tommy -> (7/2/2001 7:20:00 PM)

Jim, Yep, I've run into that trick on many scenarios. The designers shouldn't do it because we have no way of knowing which vehicles should never be "unloaded" until they get to the destination. I hate it when I unload for a walkabout patrol, only then to realize that the troopies will never get another ride and must walk to the front. They never make it there, they run out of time. Tommie



Mai Thai -> (7/2/2001 8:00:00 PM)

Afaik Stug's werent designed to transport troops along battle fields What i know is that during deplacements they were occasionaly transporting squads of 4/5 men but only far from front lines beaucouse the men trasported would be sitting duck's for every enemy unit in sight bye



Kluckenbill -> (7/2/2001 11:53:00 PM)

This topic was covered at great length a few months ago. Here are my thoughts: Remember that most WW2 vehicles were quite small compared to modern MBT's. Nonetheless I've seen photos of Stuarts carrying 8+ troops! I think that the carrying capacity was reduced in an attempt to force a more historical usage of infantry, as they rarely rode into combat on tanks. I would prefer to have a way to allow infantry to ride on tanks as a means of transport, but to make it suicidal to ride them into combat. I believe this would be more historically accurate. Tank-riding infantry should be very vulnerable to small arms and artillery fire. To be really accurate, you should also have to slow down (perhaps to no more than ― speed) to drive cross country while carrying infantry, or risk casualties among your tank riders. It would really be nice if there was a way to break squads in half to let them ride on tanks. This was commonly done in WW2. Sorry, but I can't remember my sources on this at the moment.



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