RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (Full Version)

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Dinglir -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/10/2020 12:24:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
Fighters
- Bf 109E: Bomber destroyer. Pretty heavily armed so good against enemy bombers. Use it for protecting your airfields. It also has an upgrade path going Bf 109E-3 to B9 109E-4B to Bf 109E- 7/U1, the last being a tactical bomber with brilliant fighter capabilities. If fighter losses allow, consider changing out all Bf 109E-3’s so that you can get the other aircraft into your pool.


I have had real difficulty with understanding this. The Bf 109E- 7/U1 is a tactical bomber and cannot be used in fighter groups - so cannot be used as a fighter.

Is the meaning of this sentence that it is a bomber with the ability to outmaneuver or race away from a fighter - which would mean you are saying it has fighter bomber capabilities?



It is taken from the post I did specifying how I think of airpower.

When playing the Germans, tactical bombers and dive bombers tend to be in short supply, which is why I like the Bf 109E 7/U1. Once your numbers starts to dwindle, you can change a stuka gruppe into a Bf 109E 7/U1 and get spare frames for the other stuka groups.

Further, the Bf 109E 7/U1 does not need a fighter escort to do its job, as it is basically a fighter with stats better than the Soviet fighters at the start of the war. this frees up fighters to protect other valuable air groups.

Consequently, I try to minimize the use of Bf 109E-3's and upgrade them very soon, so that many of them will then be upgraded to Bf 109E-7/U1's which I feel is a more valuable aircraft.




Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/10/2020 12:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
When playing the Germans, tactical bombers and dive bombers tend to be in short supply, which is why I like the Bf 109E 7/U1. Once your numbers starts to dwindle, you can change a stuka gruppe into a Bf 109E 7/U1 and get spare frames for the other stuka groups.

Further, the Bf 109E 7/U1 does not need a fighter escort to do its job, as it is basically a fighter with stats better than the Soviet fighters at the start of the war. this frees up fighters to protect other valuable air groups.

Consequently, I try to minimize the use of Bf 109E-3's and upgrade them very soon, so that many of them will then be upgraded to Bf 109E-7/U1's which I feel is a more valuable aircraft.


Cheers for this - I think the point about not needing escorts might be particularly significant.

According to the program as I open it now in v1.12.04 it looks like stuka groups can no longer be changed to Bf 109E-7/U1 (dive bomber to tac bomber), although Bf 109E-7/U1 can be changed to Ju87B (tac bomber to dive bomber). Any confrimation of this would be useful. If empty stuka groups can no longer be changed to Bf 109E-7/U1 would this change the calculus?



Dinglir -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/11/2020 3:12:49 PM)

I haven't upgraded to 1.12 yet, but to me it looks as if fighter and Fighter Bombers are exchangeable in one group while dive bombers and tactical bombers are exchangeable in another.

You do need sufficient numbers of the new type to actually choose the exchange from the list though.



Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/11/2020 3:30:15 PM)

It is not a problem of numbers - it is not even an option in v1.12 as I look at it.

Even in v1.11 and before the exchange of fighter bombers to tac/dive bombers was only one way - they could not go back again. So it would not be unusual in programming terms if they did that again.



Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/11/2020 3:50:42 PM)

Here is the tac bomber to dive bomber screen - Ju87B is an option

[image]local://upfiles/53894/CA10AF0FF965431ABE44557BB54CF865.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/11/2020 3:52:23 PM)

Here is the dive bomber to tac bomber screen - cannot swap back to tac bomber.

Note these are from the production screen giving you the options regardless of pools (which are all zero on turn 1 anyway). In v1.11.03 this was the way of saying dive/tac bombers could not be swapped back to fighter bombers.

This means bottom line Bf 109E 7/U1 can no longer substitute for stukas?

[image]local://upfiles/53894/8F5C0945A07B45089A0B089069EEB566.jpg[/image]



Dinglir -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/13/2020 6:58:29 AM)

Not really sure whats going on here.

I have attached an image of one of my stuka schwarms clearly showing that I can switch into Bf109E-/U/1's.



Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/13/2020 7:45:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

Not really sure whats going on here.

I have attached an image of one of my stuka schwarms clearly showing that I can switch into Bf109E-/U/1's.


What was the game version you started the game in and are playing in?

I get that for games started in an old version upgraded to v1.12.04 but not when started in v1.12.04



Dinglir -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/13/2020 4:18:39 PM)

1.11.something



redrum68 -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/17/2020 1:15:51 AM)

I made some updates and added a brief air supply and air bases limits section. Glad to add more to it if anyone has some good tips.

Air Supply and Air Base Limits
- Air bases can have a max of 9 air groups
- Air bases have "air support" elements (most Axis airbases have around 230 I think) and you want to try to only station air groups up to that limit (see the airbase detail window and look at the supply needed where it specifies "AV" which is the total needed by the currently stationed air groups)
- Generally bombers take up more air support than fighters



eskuche -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/17/2020 1:42:59 AM)

For airbases: apparently air support overage increases repair rate and fatigue reduction, so it's worth not crowding bases. You can actually know the exact amounts of AV (such as 1.4 per He 111H-3/4). In general for Axis, four level bombers max, or ~7 fight gruppes. Mix and match if your OCD doesn't inhibit it.

Other things that spring to mind (not sure if it's included). Entrained airbases do work for all intents and purposes and have a use in that support groups won't be fatigued on arrival to new locations.



redrum68 -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/17/2020 1:52:07 AM)

@eskuche - Added. Do you know if the overage increases are linear or any idea how it scales? So say if I have 230 air support airbases, 1 with 230 AV and 1 with 115 AV, does the air groups in the 115 AV airbase get twice the repair and fatigue reduction?



eskuche -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/17/2020 1:56:05 AM)

Nope. Too much work to check :)

But I suppose I cannot justify sending planes onto rear repair airbases instead of NR if I don't strictly check...



redrum68 -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/17/2020 1:57:38 AM)

@eskuche - Just trying to find you something to test this evening :)



tonyhnz -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (9/6/2020 5:48:51 PM)

The notes here so far are very useful, I had a question about the fighter bombers I-153 etc , if they are set to bomber , what missions can they fly as they do not show up as available for me when bombing ground units.



Telemecus -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (9/6/2020 6:06:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tonyhnz

The notes here so far are very useful, I had a question about the fighter bombers I-153 etc , if they are set to bomber , what missions can they fly as they do not show up as available for me when bombing ground units.


Fighter bombers will show up in the list of available air groups if one other kind of bomber is also available. If fighter bombers are the only bomber you are trying to use they will not appear on the list.



tonyhnz -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (9/8/2020 8:56:49 PM)

May be worth mentioning some tips about airbase management :
You can only send planes to reserve when they have flown no miles = airbase not moved or no missions flown - so usually best to send low morale/fatigued units to reserve at start of turn.
Planes arriving from reserve will have 100% miles flown so usually best to do at end of turn. Air transfers from rear base can mitigate this. (transfer from reserve to rear base, next turn air transfer to frontline base).
Some missions can only be done at start of turn - bomb ground unit and others. If you move the airbase first you will lose ability to do these missions so it is usually best to move the airbases at end of turn.
For soviets, if you want to use your swarm of I-15s & I-16s as bombers, you need to have at least 1 other kind of bomber in the airbase for the fighter bombers to show up in manual bombing missions. (thanks to Telemecus)



Shupov -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (9/10/2020 12:36:09 PM)

Bringing units from Reserve also lowers the receiving airbase MP's. This is another reason to wait until the end of turn.



Titan -> RE: Air System References and Tips (v1.12.04) (4/5/2021 8:16:39 AM)

As soviet does it make any difference what Airbase your planes as at, As the IAB or Bab etc cant see anywhere if it impacts planes there



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